Juniors - Pathways General Discussion

Glenji95 said:
He’s been upset over our juniors for a while now, probably more so than anyone else on here. I think he won’t stop being upset over our juniors unless they win every grade.
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Win?! We're going to miss the finals in every grade in minute reps. Why do you think that's a good thing? Or why do you think it doesn't matter if all our sides fail?
I simply don't accept mediocrity. I want our club to be better. Many fans of the club don't want us to be better. I don't understand that perspective, but everyone's entitled to their opinion. Some fans are used to losing and no longer have an issue with it.
 
Lestronge said:
He’s got massive issues with the wests side of the club . Every time he talks about them it’s negative . He’s clearly in the Balmain JRL in some form or the other .
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I have issues with us saying how fantastic our juniors are, yet we routinely fail in every grade, year after year. Wests have the money and juniors, yet their sides this season are atrocious.

It's nothing to do with Balmains or Wests thing. If you had have paid attention you'd have noticed I was extremely critical of Balmains worst season ever in the history of nswrl junior reps. And also for Wests Ashfield for leaving their squad so threadbare.
 
Lestronge said:
I’m not trying to be a jerk , I just don’t understand what that has to do with criticising 15 year olds , and the choices a club makes on which 15 year olds are worth recruiting .
When all you have to do is look around the nrl and every team and see there 2-3 tigers juniors in most of them .
The issue isn’t development it’s retention . And has been really , since the 90s for both parent clubs .
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Who's criticising 15 year Olds? We're talking about 18 year Olds. Who are on the fringe of Flegg qualification.
We don't develop players. We don't retain the players we should. We don't recruit the players we should.

My issue is that our junior pathways is both the centre of our clubs structure and planning, yet also completely dysfunctional, and then that my frustration that we can't compete with other clubs gets the best of me.

Tell me, why shouldn't we be aiming to be top 4 in every grade? Maybe top two or win something occasionally, and if we don't reach out target of top 4 we hopefully still finish top 8. Finishing second last, whilst also developing few, if any, future prospects, should not be celebrated the way many on here do. Not having the worst season ever in the history of the comp doesn't mean we're successful.
 
balmain boy said:
Who's criticising 15 year Olds? We're talking about 18 year Olds. Who are on the fringe of Flegg qualification.
We don't develop players. We don't retain the players we should. We don't recruit the players we should.

My issue is that our junior pathways is both the centre of our clubs structure and planning, yet also completely dysfunctional, and then that my frustration that we can't compete with other clubs gets the best of me.

Tell me, why shouldn't we be aiming to be top 4 in every grade? Maybe top two or win something occasionally, and if we don't reach out target of top 4 we hopefully still finish top 8. Finishing second last, whilst also developing few, if any, future prospects, should not be celebrated the way many on here do. Not having the worst season ever in the history of the comp doesn't mean we're successful.
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They made the grand final… seriously what the actual ? The Balmain sg ball team is coming 6th . The magpies don’t have any halves so what can you do . They’ve all left recently .
Our juniors are split between 2 clubs . They’re going alright . They’re just kids .
 
As you know balmain boy, I agree with your sentiments in saying we generally get our talent ID and recruitment & retention for our junior reps all the way up to NSW Cup very wrong.
With the Campbelltown-MacArthur region we have an extremely large and strong talent pool, so itt is not hard to find the likes of Galvin, Da Silva etc amongst them, but we still manage to let a lot of good ones slip through our fingers and not adequately replace them.
In saying this I can only imagine how hard it is to try and please all our most talented players, I know about the demands some of these young players, their parents and their managers try and put on clubs such as Wests Tigers, some of them think showing even small glimpses of talent means they should be getting ridiculous money and ridiculous contracts, otherwise they threaten to leave and often do.
With Richo at the helm and Shannon Gallant and Bronson Harrison following his lead, it appears we are no longer going to be held to ransom and rightly so, we need the players to start earning their contracts and good contract money.
On the Balmain side, they have far less local juniors to choose from, but they always produce some quality with assistance from Penrith and Parramatta cast offs and a few external recruits, but again we are seemingly no longer a cash cow for the ones who make a rep team or get a bit of early recognition, they need to back it up and keep producing high quality over a couple of years to earn contacts and decent money.
The only way the vast majority of our talented juniors, their parents and managers will start towing the line is if/when we start becoming much more successful at NRL level as only then will they stop thinking of us and treating us like a feeder club and start treating us seriously with a bit of respect.
With this in mind it is why we have to tread very warily and be very selective in the young players we give Development Contacts or Top 30 contracts to at a young age as we need to make a decent percentage of them work to ensure the next crop and the next generation have the confidence that it’s a good chance we can progress them through to NRL level.
This is part of the reason why it’s vitally important we retain the likes of Galvin and Da Silva as showcase players for our junior development.
So what I’m saying balmain boy is I think having successful teams throughout our pathways is much more complex than what we could imagine, but I do agree we should be much more selective in some of the players within these teams in regards to body shape, athletic and aerobic capacity as well as skill set for certain positions.
 
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balmain boy said:
Who's criticising 15 year Olds? We're talking about 18 year Olds. Who are on the fringe of Flegg qualification.
We don't develop players. We don't retain the players we should. We don't recruit the players we should.

My issue is that our junior pathways is both the centre of our clubs structure and planning, yet also completely dysfunctional, and then that my frustration that we can't compete with other clubs gets the best of me.

Tell me, why shouldn't we be aiming to be top 4 in every grade? Maybe top two or win something occasionally, and if we don't reach out target of top 4 we hopefully still finish top 8. Finishing second last, whilst also developing few, if any, future prospects, should not be celebrated the way many on here do. Not having the worst season ever in the history of the comp doesn't mean we're successful.
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So, if you mention investment do you think HBG are responsible for Wests' poor seasons? Wests Campbelltown?

A lot has changed in the 14 months since Richo came along although the issues adjacent to Wests Tigers at board level are still an issue. Does the issue lie there?
 
Results after the weekend's games:

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Commisserations to the Laurie Daley Cup team who went down in the GF.
They have improved their position on last year so congrats also on a good campaign.

As for the rest....mixed bag.

The Lisa Fiaola Cup team is 4th currently. Mathematically they can lose and still make the finals but it’s a risk as 7 teams are still alive. They win, they are through in 4th spot.

The Harrold Mathews Cup teams are currently in 12th (Wests) and 15th (Balmain). Neither can make the finals but they get one last chance to climb the ladder. Wretched campaigns from both with only 2 wins, 1 bye and 5 losses each from 8 rounds.

The Tarsha Gale Cup team is 3rd currently. Mathematically they can lose and still make the finals but it’s a risk as 8 teams are still alive. They win, they are through in 3rd spot.

The SG Ball teams are currently in 10th (Wests) and 8th (Balmain). Magpies are done. Balmain need to win and have other results go their way to scrape in to the finals. Roughie chance at best with 9 teams still alive. They could win and still not make it.

Good luck to all. Hopefully 6 from 6 this weekend with 3 teams going on to the finals.
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
We've lost all junior reps today. Also Ryde Eastwood lost Sydney Shield 40-24 which had Brandon Tumeth & Herman Tofaeono in our team & lost Ron Massey Cup 30-16 which had Matamua, Joe Lovodua, Mikey Tannous & another 3 or 4 NSW Cup contracted players in it. Not a good day for our lower grades.
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Tumeth must be the only nrl top 30 player ever to appear in Sydney Shield
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
We've lost all junior reps today. Also Ryde Eastwood lost Sydney Shield 40-24 which had Brandon Tumeth & Herman Tofaeono in our team & lost Ron Massey Cup 30-16 which had Matamua, Joe Lovodua, Mikey Tannous & another 3 or 4 NSW Cup contracted players in it. Not a good day for our lower grades.
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Ouch
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
We've lost all junior reps today. Also Ryde Eastwood lost Sydney Shield 40-24 which had Brandon Tumeth & Herman Tofaeono in our team & lost Ron Massey Cup 30-16 which had Matamua, Joe Lovodua, Mikey Tannous & another 3 or 4 NSW Cup contracted players in it. Not a good day for our lower grades.
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Don’t tell BamaiinBoy, he won’t be happy 😂
Interestingly enough his comments are proving to be fairly accurate.
Obviously all players are in control of their own destiny, but it makes you wonder why so many of our at one time promising players in all grades seem to dip badly in form and/or fall by the wayside ?
We have to ask the question as to why so many players across our entire club, except those playing NRL appear to lack motivation ?
I found Wayne Bennett’s comments about Jayden Sullivan in last night post match interview very interesting.
Maybe time for another review ???
 
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Vicious said:
Don’t tell BamaiinBoy, he won’t be happy 😂
Interestingly enough his comments are proving to be fairly accurate.
Obviously all players are in control of their own destiny, but it makes you wonder why so many of our at one time promising players in all grades seem to dip badly in form and/or fall by the wayside ?
We have to ask the question as to why so many players across our entire club, except those playing NRL appear to lack motivation ?
I found Wayne Bennett’s comments about Jayden Sullivan in last night post match interview very interesting.
Maybe time for another review ???
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What did Bennett say @Vicious
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
What did Bennett say @Vicious
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Just that he’s a good kid with a good attitude, tries really hard and tries very hard to make up for any mistakes he makes.
Very different to being banished to NSW Cup with us last season and being told he would not play NRL again for the second half of last season no matter how well he played in NSW Cup.
Not sure if that message was coming from Benji or Richo and I understand that it was done to try and force him to leave, but I just don’t think it creates a good culture and it’s hard to think of any player that has improved while playing in our NSW Cup or Jersey Flegg teams over the past few seasons.
Even highly talented players such as Latu Fainu have looked largely unmotivated when playing NSW Cup for us, so it appears to be a problem.
 
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So now it's all done, and the end of another pitiful junior reps season for Wests Tigers. 0/4 sides make finals. Both Harold Matts teams were appalling, lacked the size pace and skill to compete. Awful recruitment.

SG ball there are at least a few individuals who played ok, but still sadly not a single player who could play consistently above average in either side.

All of our junior rep sides suffered from a complete lack of quality in the spine, especially in the halves. Not a single decent playmaker in any of these 4 sides. No one capable of steering their side around the park

Why exactly did we lose Isdale and Conti? Both would have been walkup starters in our SG ball sides and then straight into Flegg. Isdale is a backup hooker at sharks, Conti is about 10th in line at the Dogs. He'd be playing Flegg for us next week. Losing them is bad enough, not replacing them is unforgivable. A complete breakdown in recruitment and retention .

So who is managing our junior pathways? Betsey was but now he's also our GM. Is he doing both jobs? Has he simply delegated all work to Bronson and Shannon? Our pathways are in a worse position now than they have been for many years. There are very few players pushing up through the grades, no standouts in any grade. I think Betsey has to go and a new head of recurring and pathways hired Benji part of the recruitment process.

Today Tannous cost Balmain any chance of winning with a dismal display of decision making. He just nearly always chooses the wrong option. Illawarra had much more firepower all over the field, they're halves were excellent, back always looked threatening and the forwards got the job done. Our pack was dominated by bigger, stronger and smarter players. At the start of the year Balmain grinded wins by taking the few chances they created as they didn't have many naturally talented players, over the last month they haven't executed any plays and the complete demise of our attack is why they faded so badly and missed the finals.

Wests again have no halves, and you can't win games across the season relying purely on natural talent if a handful of players.

Sadly there's really no one pushing to be included in Flegg anytime soon but they probably still will. Sadly Logan Brookes also had his arm partially slinged in his jersey at the end of the game after injuring it making a desperate try saver after our defence capitulated in front of him. So sadly he's likely zero chance of playing Flegg next week either.

We likely need 15-20 new players in each grade next season. Hopefully our recruitments teams can find the talent required.

Or we just work out how to make players better. Because we simply do not know how currently. And believe me I don't get satisfaction saying how crap we are, but there's no point painting over the cracks pretending everything's going alright, it's not. Results aren't everything, but when player development is lacking and we're losing then it's alarm bells, or at least it should be.
 
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BlackWhiteGold said:
We've lost all junior reps today. Also Ryde Eastwood lost Sydney Shield 40-24 which had Brandon Tumeth & Herman Tofaeono in our team & lost Ron Massey Cup 30-16 which had Matamua, Joe Lovodua, Mikey Tannous & another 3 or 4 NSW Cup contracted players in it. Not a good day for our lower grades.
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Terrible results, however Magpies HM play tomorrow. Chance for one win!
 
Dr_Ice said:
Terrible results, however Magpies HM play tomorrow. Chance for one win!
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A positive out of the pathways looking forward is we should have a very strong Wests Magpies team in SG Ball next year as a number of our squad were bottom-agers this year (i.e. turning 18 this year) plus will be topped up by our better performers in our GF Laurie Daley Cup team.

Turning 18 this year - Taupau-Moors, Godinet, Makasini, Ta'ai, Glassie, Karnib, Ransom & Cosgrave.

And hopefully Alex Isdale returns from the Sharks to add to our halves depth.
 
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