Coronavirus Outbreak

[Papacito]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

 

[earl]

Was it the Commonwealth or NSW Govt which advised Moderna is likely to be used as the booster shot? What impact does its use have on the efficacy of AZ and Pfizer?

I can try and look this up but there are two important points:-

1. Efficacy is not a figure that people should concern themselves with.
2. I bet there is no or little data to back up changing vaccine brands predominantly because of point 1 above.


Efficacy typically refers to the chances of catching the virus but this statistic is basically irrelevant. The idea is to develop antibodies to stop you getting really sick.

The efficacy figures are at a point in time so it depends on how many people have the virus in the community etc. If you watch that video on efficacy it explains how people get this figure wrong. So people are debating that Pfizer is a better vaccine on efficacy rates but that figure changes over time. In Israel the efficacy figures have dropped quite low. So the Pfizer vaccine is the same vaccine with efficacy rates of 90% and 40% dependent on when and where the study was completed.

The medical community don't care about the brand.

I think the RNA vaccines are an amazing technology but the main benefit appears to be time to market and for COVID the blood clotting issue to my knowledge isn't a problem.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-uk-data-offer-mixed-signals-on-vaccines-potency-against-delta-strain/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&s=09

New Health Ministry statistics indicated that, on average, the Pfizer shot — the vaccine given to nearly all Israelis — is now just 39% effective against infection, while being only 41% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID. Previously, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was well over 90% effective against infection.

My gut feeling is all the vaccines are the same in relation to developing antibodies so the brand won't matter. The big issue will be if the vaccines are updated like the flu vaccine to be able to better protect you against the different variants.

Please note my point about what will happen is an educated guess. The point about efficacy is a fact.

 

[earl]

I’ve also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

I think this will have to happen. It's a high risk environment. I'd only allow people in the gym who are fully vaccinated.

 

[earl]

The determining factor in whether or not vaccination becomes mandatory in the workplace/society may unfortunately come down to how many people end up dying from COVID.

I agree. This is what I think it's going to come down too. If the numbers get too high then we have to implement restrictions.

It's freaken amazing.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

 

[earl]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

I don't see this happening in the next 6 months and I see no chance of it happening over the next 2 years.

I posted an article yesterday where in England scientists are stating stop testing for COVID because it's pointless. It's now a virus that is just part of life and we should only manage symptomatic infections.

It's possible to get it to 0 for a short period of time but the cost is too high to keep it there.

 

[Papacito]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

Unless you can't get a vaccine on medical grounds or something similar, there's no anti discrimination law that specifically protects those who choose to not be vaccinated.

 

[Snake]

As a business owner I have an obligation and a duty of care under law in NSW .. there is an occupational health and safety act that all employers have to abide to .
Business owners / directors and managers can personally be sued if the act is not adhered to .
Reading many posts it’s not going to be easy for anyone employing the Feds now this and there running a mile … this will be a state based situation as the Act will need to be altered , this is a serious situation!

 

[Tiger5150]

Was it the Commonwealth or NSW Govt which advised Moderna is likely to be used as the booster shot? What impact does its use have on the efficacy of AZ and Pfizer?

I can try and look this up but there are two important points:-

1. Efficacy is not a figure that people should concern themselves with.

Why shouldnt people concern themselves with how effective a vaccine is at preventing infection?

What are your credentials for determining what people should be concerned about in a medical crisis?

Efficacy ***typically*** refers to the chances of catching the virus but this statistic is basically irrelevant. The idea is to develop antibodies to stop you getting really sick.


Efficacy does not *typically* refer to the chances of catching the virus, it **ALWAYS**, in **EVERY** case refers to the effectiveness in preventing infection. Full stop. That is what it means.


The efficacy figures are *at a point in time* so it depends on how many people have the virus in the community etc. If you watch that video on efficacy it explains how people get this figure wrong.

No it doesnt at all. It was misleading and explained how the efficacy of EACH vaccine varied depending on environment but NOT relative efficacy between each vaccine. STOP LYING. That video was deleted from here for good reason.

>So people are debating that Pfizer is a better vaccine on efficacy rates but that figure changes over time.

Relative efficacy does NOT change over time. People are NOT debating the superior efficacy of Pfizer, it has been PROVEN in a scientific study and published in the New England Journal of Medicine. No debate. Simple FACT.....STOP LYING ABOUT IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891
Mods.....seriously? This allowed to continue?



>In Israel the efficacy figures have dropped quite low. So the Pfizer vaccine is the same with efficacy rates of 90% and 40% dependent on when and where the study was completed.

YOU ARE KNOWINGLY LYING!!!! Misleading intentionally.

I have posted scientific papers proving this. The Pfizer efficacy has NOT changed in Israel. The dominant variant changed from Alpha to Delta (possibly an Israel version of Delta). Pfizer is the ONLY vaccine in Israel so there is no relative data with AZ.

STOP KNOWINGLY LYING AND SPREADING MISINFORMATION. Mods?

The medical community don't care about the brand.

REally? Is this true or are you lying and spreading misinformation?

When you go to get the vaccine, do they ask you your age? Are all vaccines available to all ages? Are certain brands prioritised for certain age groups?

Certain age groups are prioritised for different vaccines, Pfizer prioritised for 40-60yo. These decision made by the....."medical community"
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/learn-about-covid-19-vaccines/about-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine

**"The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) recommends the COVID-19 vaccine by Pfizer (Comirnaty) is preferred in adults aged under 60 years."**

You are a damn liar and dangerous spreader of misinformation.



https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-uk-data-offer-mixed-signals-on-vaccines-potency-against-delta-strain/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&s=09

New Health Ministry statistics indicated that, on average, the Pfizer shot — the vaccine given to nearly all Israelis — is now just 39% effective against infection, while being only 41% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID. Previously, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was well over 90% effective against infection.


Against Delta isntead of Alpha. No other vaccines are available in Israel.



Please note my point about what will happen is an educated guess. ***The point about efficacy is a fact.***

Your continued lying and misinformation about efficacy is a lie you keep repeating knowingly and your behaviour is disgraceful. Pfizer has a significantly higher efficacy than AZ as proven in the NEJM.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

You need to stop lying and spreading this misinformation and I have no idea why the Mods arent stopping you. Many other people have been banned for less. @Geo @cochise @willow ?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

EARL YOU NEED TO **STOP**!!!

At ***best*** you are spreading misinformation. In practicality you are simply ***lying*** to back your prior convictions and biases adn you need to stop. You have become what you are trying to stop here.

Plus it's nonsense stating that the Pfizer is not as good as the AZ.

Technically (and accidentally) you are correct on this. It is nonsense that Pfizer is not as good as AZ. In terms of efficacy it is more than 20% better, backed by actual scientific studies as published by the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true





>Watch the video on efficacy rates.

NO NO NO NO!!!! Do NOT based important decisions, like what vaccine to get (if efficacy is an important part of your decision) on a Vox video. Based it on actual scientific data!

If anything the Pfizer is a concern because it's efficacy in relation to stopping infections has dropped a lot in Israel.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION EARL!!! (seriously mods, how is this different from the others banned for spreading misinformation?)

The ONLY vaccine available in Israel is Pfizer.

https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-021-00440-6

In the last six months Delta has become the dominant variant in Israel (as most places world wide). Effectiveness of BOTH Pfizer and AZ are lower against contracting Delta. Down from 94% for Alpha with Pfizer to 88% for Delta and down from 74% for Alpha with AZ to 67% for Delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true

Tell the truth, dont simply make things up and spread blatant misinformation.

>That isn't really a big deal because it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the real concern.

For me, telling the truth and not spreading misinformation is kinda a big deal. Clearly not for you.

I reckon though lots of people don't understand efficacy and they've been brand shopping for the best vaccine. I bet some of those people have already died.

There is at least one person here proving over and over that they have no idea about efficacy despite having the right information provided to them over and over.

You need to stop.

To be fair to Earl the top quote about safer than having a bath is from me not from him, and I stand by it. More people die having a bath each year than have died from AZ shots. Also more people die in Australia in an average year from falling off a chair (26) and falling out of bed (58).

Serious question, how does an adult die from having a bath?

I can appreciate there might be other factors (like having a heart attack and then drowning) but the risk comparison of a healthy person sitting in a bath vs a healthy person getting a vaccine does not seem right.

By the way, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

Probably slipping over getting out/in, slipping in the bath and knocking yourself out on the soap dish. Babies/small kids being left unattended in the bath.

I would think these are all considered in that.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

my friend booked in for Pfizer for today waited 2 hours and then was told she was not getting vaccinated as she was not from a hotspot LGA
I wonder why she was allowed to book then

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

my friend booked in for Pfizer for today waited 2 hours and then was told she was not getting vaccinated as she was not from a hotspot LGA
I wonder why she was allowed to book then

Jesus they better not cancel mine, I fall under phase 1B and I can only get Pfizer on professional recommendation.

 

[Guest]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

Never going to happen under current circumstances - unless there is a hard closure of Australia's border, COVID will continue to enter the country, and based on the ease of transmission with the Delta variant, no lockdown measures in place will stop the spread.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

my friend booked in for Pfizer for today waited 2 hours and then was told she was not getting vaccinated as she was not from a hotspot LGA
I wonder why she was allowed to book then

I tried to book my eldest son this morning on the Service NSW site and we could not get a booking. He will be notified (of what I don't know).

 

[Tiger5150]

my friend booked in for Pfizer for today waited 2 hours and then was told she was not getting vaccinated as she was not from a hotspot LGA
I wonder why she was allowed to book then

The booking system seem to be really all over the place. Ive been booked in for Pfizer for a month and have another 4 weeks to wait. Im in the age group prioritised for Pfizer but I see people "jumping the queue" all the time. It seems to be luck where/who you book with.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

Never going to happen under current circumstances - unless there is a hard closure of Australia's border, COVID will continue to enter the country, and based on the ease of transmission with the Delta variant, no lockdown measures in place will stop the spread.

NSW will be isolated from the remainder of Australia. I can imagine no other State opening its borders to NSW until there is zero Covid in the community. Perrotet and the PM will have to suck up the lockdown and its impact on business.

 

[cochise]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

Never going to happen under current circumstances - unless there is a hard closure of Australia's border, COVID will continue to enter the country, and based on the ease of transmission with the Delta variant, no lockdown measures in place will stop the spread.

NSW will be isolated from the remainder of Australia. I can imagine no other State opening its borders to NSW until there is zero Covid in the community. Perrotet and the PM will have to suck up the lockdown and its impact on business.

Once the vaccination rates get to the appropriate levels I doubt any state will be looking at zero case levels.

 

[Vince Farrar]

I’m on the central coast and Han 1st AZ shot 6 weeks ago. I specifically asked them how long I had to wait for 2nd jab and the doctor said I’ll be booked for 2nd shot at 12 weeks. He said you can get it done earlier but only if things got out of hand. I’ve just received a text from them telling me that if I haven’t booked 2nd jab to do so online it then proceeds to say you DO NOT need to wait 12 weeks in capital letters. Interesting, they must believe things have got out of hand.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

If you choose not to get the vaccine and you don't have any underlying conditions that precludes you from being vaccinated, you categorise yourself with people who engage in behaviour that can be perceived as risky to others. There's a reason why people are now forced to smoke outside away from buildings.

 

[Tiger5150]

The next six months will be really interesting.

CEO at my work is looking to bring in a 'no jab, no job' policy once the laws support it

I've also heard my gym is planning on making vaccination a condition of membership.

The first step should be zero Covid 19 in the community, not discrimination on the basis of who has or hasn't had the vaccine.

Never going to happen under current circumstances - unless there is a hard closure of Australia's border, COVID will continue to enter the country, and based on the ease of transmission with the Delta variant, no lockdown measures in place will stop the spread.

NSW will be isolated from the remainder of Australia. I can imagine no other State opening its borders to NSW until there is zero Covid in the community. Perrotet and the PM will have to suck up the lockdown and its impact on business.

Cases slowly rising in Vic, ACT locked down. Unfortunately I see this as the start of our journey through what the rest of the world has already been through as we laughed from the sidelines. Only benefit will be that we are that bit further down the vaccine pathway.