JTs Presser..after Dogs game..

[pHyR3]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Ballin was signed with Farah going as the scenario. The Board did not back JT when it came to the crunch so that scenario did not happen. Manly paid most of his salary.

Ballin was one of the fittest players in the League and was due to play in round three until he had a setback. No one at the start of the season was talking about Liddle playing NRL in their wildest dreams. Unluckily Ballin sustained another injury, it could have happened to Farah he is just as old or one of the younger ones (age does not discriminate).

In hindsight he may not have been the best signing but at the time he was.

It's not hindsight, it's foresight. He was 32 and had not recovered from a bad ACL. You don't sign that guy, unless he's Sonny Bill or something and it's a justifiable lottery ticket. We didn't need a lottery ticket, we needed a hooker.

In fact, I'd argue that the only reason for picking up Ballin would be if the expectation was that Farah wasn't leaving. Ballin, if fit, to play 20 minutes and cover origin. If not fit, make do. Worth a punt for little money.

To sign Ballin on the expectation that he's going to be first-choice hooker all season, regardless of the money involved, was insanity.

This was nearly everybody's take on the signing, is was purely an ego signing from JT to try show Farah who was boss, not a signing for the teams sake, we had Farah, Cherrington, Liddle and Halatau already at the club we needed centres, backrowers and wingers.

errrr what??

at the time Farah was supposed to be leaving, he dug his heels in and stayed. Which is fine, but what did you ecxpect JT to do?

Hand the hooking reigns over to Cherrington and Halatau? 21 and 33 respectively. And they both have to play 24 games else we're left with a 19 year old and whoevers left.

We know Halatau has already been injured this year, so we would have been left with two hookers with 15 games between them trying to defend 80 minutes in the NRL…. insanity.

obviously farah did stay, so we haven't been too short changed but without him we would be screwed for hooker

 

[Bob]

I thought dene spoke incredibly well!

 

[balmain boy]

Tigerman80\. Do you not understand that there is no way in hell that Liddle could have been in the top 25 this season? He was a 19 year old on an NYC contact and the 4/5th choice hooker at the club on an existing NYC contract. He would never have been in our top 25 earners unless we were already paying him massive overs (thank god we're not!).

Buchanan did leave which openend a spot for JJ, but realistically we aren't going to lose many top 25 players during the season.

Measure the success of Ballin at the end of next year. To sign an experienced and incredibly professional player is a good move for the club. He was expected and was on track to be back early in the season. Then complications arose as he was getting back into it. If we are paying him something crazy like 100k over 2 years for a role model of his calibre, then that's not too bad in itself. If he plays 15 games next season then we've come out on top in this deal.

Think how unprofessional our club has been on and off the field. We are rank amateurs in almost every manner and it shows. The more players that come in and help foster a new culture which can set us up for the next decade the better.

 

[2041]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Ballin was signed with Farah going as the scenario. The Board did not back JT when it came to the crunch so that scenario did not happen. Manly paid most of his salary.

Ballin was one of the fittest players in the League and was due to play in round three until he had a setback. No one at the start of the season was talking about Liddle playing NRL in their wildest dreams. Unluckily Ballin sustained another injury, it could have happened to Farah he is just as old or one of the younger ones (age does not discriminate).

In hindsight he may not have been the best signing but at the time he was.

It's not hindsight, it's foresight. He was 32 and had not recovered from a bad ACL. You don't sign that guy, unless he's Sonny Bill or something and it's a justifiable lottery ticket. We didn't need a lottery ticket, we needed a hooker.

In fact, I'd argue that the only reason for picking up Ballin would be if the expectation was that Farah wasn't leaving. Ballin, if fit, to play 20 minutes and cover origin. If not fit, make do. Worth a punt for little money.

To sign Ballin on the expectation that he's going to be first-choice hooker all season, regardless of the money involved, was insanity.

This was nearly everybody's take on the signing, is was purely an ego signing from JT to try show Farah who was boss, not a signing for the teams sake, we had Farah, Cherrington, Liddle and Halatau already at the club we needed centres, backrowers and wingers.

errrr what??

at the time Farah was supposed to be leaving, he dug his heels in and stayed. Which is fine, but what did you ecxpect JT to do?

Hand the hooking reigns over to Cherrington and Halatau? 21 and 33 respectively. And they both have to play 24 games else we're left with a 19 year old and whoevers left.

We know Halatau has already been injured this year, so we would have been left with two hookers with 15 games between them trying to defend 80 minutes in the NRL…. insanity.

obviously farah did stay, so we haven't been too short changed but without him we would be screwed for hooker

But that's exactly the point. When Ballin was signed, there were two possibilities:
1) Farah was leaving. In this case, the Tigers needed a hooker to be their first-choice player in the position. Signing a 32-year-old with an ACL was a terrible move in this case, as there was a high chance he wouldn't be able to be relied on as first-choice option.
2) Farah wasn't leaving. In this case, the Tigers either needed no-one at all (using Halatau and Cherrington to spell Farah/cover origin) or I guess could afford to roll the dice on a low-cost, high-risk option.

It's nonsense to say that just because Ballin had done an ACL there was no reason to think he'd get injured again. First of all, he hadn't recovered from that injury - in fact I'm not sure he'd even had the surgery yet. It's one thing to say you can't predict future injuries but you certainly can predict past injuries a player hasn't recovered from. Then you add the extra risk factors: the biggest predictor of future injuries is past injuries, and the biggest predictor of suboptimal injury recovery is age.

Be honest with yourself. Ballin looked like a good way of crowbarring Farah out of the door. He was a 'name' player who could legitimately be presented as a first-choice option, but he was cheap enough not to be a catastrophe on the cap if the club was landed with him and Farah. Of course, the reason he was so cheap is all the injury stuff outlined above - ie, a decent chance that he'd never play again or not for any significant minutes.

In other words, as a strategy to get rid of Farah arguably Ballin was a worthwhile ploy. But as an actual player for the club he was always a crap bet.

 

[2041]

at the time Farah was supposed to be leaving, he dug his heels in and stayed. Which is fine, but what did you ecxpect JT to do?

Maybe do better roster/man management in the first place? You say Farah was "supposed" to be leaving, but that was only ever the case in Taylor's mind. He'd told Farah he could look elsewhere, Farah said he didn't want to go. At that point what do you think is the sensible thing to do?
a) Stop, discuss further with Farah, see what options emerge for him and the club and then make a decision on the hooker position?
b) Rush out to sign a crock in the hope that this somehow 'forces' Farah to do something he has already clearly said he doesn't want to do?

 

[pHyR3]

at the time Farah was supposed to be leaving, he dug his heels in and stayed. Which is fine, but what did you ecxpect JT to do?

Maybe do better roster/man management in the first place? You say Farah was "supposed" to be leaving, but that was only ever the case in Taylor's mind. He'd told Farah he could look elsewhere, Farah said he didn't want to go. At that point what do you think is the sensible thing to do?
a) Stop, discuss further with Farah, see what options emerge for him and the club and then make a decision on the hooker position?
b) Rush out to sign a crock in the hope that this somehow 'forces' Farah to do something he has already clearly said he doesn't want to do?

if he sat around waiting he might have been left with no one

how many solid experienced hookers were around for 300-500k on the market at the time? i have a feeling ballin was just about the only one

 

[Telltails]

I think you will find that the only time Farah even hinted at leaving was after it was announced that Ballin had signed.
The club refused.
We never needed Ballin when we signed him because Farah was determined to see out his contract and
Cherrington was seen as the incumbent.
You can make up your own mind why we signed him.

 

[tigerman80]

Tigerman80\. Do you not understand that there is no way in hell that Liddle could have been in the top 25 this season? He was a 19 year old on an NYC contact and the 4/5th choice hooker at the club on an existing NYC contract. He would never have been in our top 25 earners unless we were already paying him massive overs (thank god we're not!).

Buchanan did leave which openend a spot for JJ, but realistically we aren't going to lose many top 25 players during the season.

Measure the success of Ballin at the end of next year. To sign an experienced and incredibly professional player is a good move for the club. He was expected and was on track to be back early in the season. Then complications arose as he was getting back into it. If we are paying him something crazy like 100k over 2 years for a role model of his calibre, then that's not too bad in itself. If he plays 15 games next season then we've come out on top in this deal.

Think how unprofessional our club has been on and off the field. We are rank amateurs in almost every manner and it shows. The more players that come in and help foster a new culture which can set us up for the next decade the better.

So what your saying is that you cant be in the top 25 players in a team if your only 19?? Why is that??? If Taylor had decided that Cherrington wasnt in his plans, then obviously Liddle was next in line. Id much rather him invest in Liddle at the start of the year then in Ballin. I didnt realise though that Ballin while in rehab and with limited training sessions with the first team had actually changed the whole culture of our club :crazy . The only ones defending Ballin are the guys who wont admit Ballin was nothing but a mindgame that JT tried to use on Farah to move him on.

So if Ballin is playing next year, and Farah is still here, Liddle is playing another year of reserve grade. Another masterstroke for our future. So Ballin and Farah retire at the end of next year, and Liddle takes over with no first grade experience, wow.

 

[2041]

at the time Farah was supposed to be leaving, he dug his heels in and stayed. Which is fine, but what did you ecxpect JT to do?

Maybe do better roster/man management in the first place? You say Farah was "supposed" to be leaving, but that was only ever the case in Taylor's mind. He'd told Farah he could look elsewhere, Farah said he didn't want to go. At that point what do you think is the sensible thing to do?
a) Stop, discuss further with Farah, see what options emerge for him and the club and then make a decision on the hooker position?
b) Rush out to sign a crock in the hope that this somehow 'forces' Farah to do something he has already clearly said he doesn't want to do?

if he sat around waiting he might have been left with no one

how many solid experienced hookers were around for 300-500k on the market at the time? i have a feeling ballin was just about the only one

Oh come on, seriously - you think Matt freakin Ballin was in such demand that we had to leap right in and sign him then and there or run the risk of missing out?

 

[851]

at the time Farah was supposed to be leaving, he dug his heels in and stayed. Which is fine, but what did you ecxpect JT to do?

Maybe do better roster/man management in the first place? You say Farah was "supposed" to be leaving, but that was only ever the case in Taylor's mind. He'd told Farah he could look elsewhere, Farah said he didn't want to go. At that point what do you think is the sensible thing to do?
a) Stop, discuss further with Farah, see what options emerge for him and the club and then make a decision on the hooker position?
b) Rush out to sign a crock in the hope that this somehow 'forces' Farah to do something he has already clearly said he doesn't want to do?

if he sat around waiting he might have been left with no one

how many solid experienced hookers were around for 300-500k on the market at the time? i have a feeling ballin was just about the only one

Oh come on, seriously - you think Matt freakin Ballin was in such demand that we had to leap right in and sign him then and there or run the risk of missing out?

We could have waited months to get Ballin no other club showed interest, it was a bad call from our coach made on his ego.
He was trying to oust Farah, everyone bar a few JT supporters can see this, Farah said at every chance he was staying, so yeh no hindsight needed

 

[Masterton]

So what your saying is that you cant be in the top 25 players in a team if your only 19?? Why is that??? If Taylor had decided that Cherrington wasnt in his plans, then obviously Liddle was next in line. Id much rather him invest in Liddle at the start of the year then in Ballin. I didnt realise though that Ballin while in rehab and with limited training sessions with the first team had actually changed the whole culture of our club :crazy . The only ones defending Ballin are the guys who wont admit Ballin was nothing but a mindgame that JT tried to use on Farah to move him on.

So if Ballin is playing next year, and Farah is still here, Liddle is playing another year of reserve grade. Another masterstroke for our future. So Ballin and Farah retire at the end of next year, and Liddle takes over with no first grade experience, wow.

That's what you call a Strawman argument.

Nobody said 19 year olds couldn't be in the top 25, or Liddle will spend next year in reserve grade. You made that up.

I'm no fan of Ballin, but he was very cheap. Let's hope he can contribute something next year.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

 

[hobbo]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Before we all can "get over it " can you provide the pityfull monetary sum that we are paying Ballin ?

 

[tigerman80]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Lol classic fallback line, if it makes you feel better about then go for it. So we got Ballin for free?? How lucky are we. He hasnt played any footy, probably wont play next year lol, so we actually got our moneys worth. The point which is probably beyond your intelligence, is that we have 5 hookers on our books, when we should be investing money and playing time on our future which is Liddle.

 

[tigerman80]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Before we all can "get over it " can you provide the pityfull monetary sum that we are paying Ballin ?

GNR4LIFE reckons we are paying him $30k lol, he needs that number to back his argument.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Lol classic fallback line, if it makes you feel better about then go for it. So we got Ballin for free?? How lucky are we. He hasnt played any footy, probably wont play next year lol, so we actually got our moneys worth. The point which is probably beyond your intelligence, is that we have 5 hookers on our books, when we should be investing money and playing time on our future which is Liddle.

Who says he won't play next yr?

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Before we all can "get over it " can you provide the pityfull monetary sum that we are paying Ballin ?

It's common sense. Ballin re-signed with Manly for 2 yrs. Afterwards Toovey is sacked and Barrett doesn't see him in his plans (sound familiar?). So we come along and offer to take him. With 2 yrs running on his contract, are we going pay all of it, or try and pay as little as possible knowing Manly already have an obligation and Barrett doesn't want him?

 

[tigerman80]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Lol classic fallback line, if it makes you feel better about then go for it. So we got Ballin for free?? How lucky are we. He hasnt played any footy, probably wont play next year lol, so we actually got our moneys worth. The point which is probably beyond your intelligence, is that we have 5 hookers on our books, when we should be investing money and playing time on our future which is Liddle.

Who says he won't play next yr?

His dodgey knees told me lol. Plus the fact you need to develop Liddle to take over from Farah. If Farah is around next year, which is looking more and more likely , the only time Ballin should play first grade is during state of origin. Other than that Farah and Liddle have to be our first choice hookers. If its Farah and Ballin with Liddle in reserve grade then good luck to us.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Lol classic fallback line, if it makes you feel better about then go for it. So we got Ballin for free?? How lucky are we. He hasnt played any footy, probably wont play next year lol, so we actually got our moneys worth. The point which is probably beyond your intelligence, is that we have 5 hookers on our books, when we should be investing money and playing time on our future which is Liddle.

Who says he won't play next yr?

His dodgey knees told me lol. Plus the fact you need to develop Liddle to take over from Farah. If Farah is around next year, which is looking more and more likely , the only time Ballin should play first grade is during state of origin. Other than that Farah and Liddle have to be our first choice hookers. If its Farah and Ballin with Liddle in reserve grade then good luck to us.

We'll see.

 

[tigerman80]

The more i read this thread the more i realize the JT basher's are finding it harder and harder to complain about him given our record since the Raiders game, so have to resort to insignificant arguments like this. We're hardly paying Ballin a cent for god's sake. Get over it.

Before we all can "get over it " can you provide the pityfull monetary sum that we are paying Ballin ?

It's common sense. Ballin re-signed with Manly for 2 yrs. Afterwards Toovey is sacked and Barrett doesn't see him in his plans (sound familiar?). So we come along and offer to take him. With 2 yrs running on his contract, are we going pay all of it, or try and pay as little as possible knowing Manly already have an obligation and Barrett doesn't want him?

He would have re-signed for minimum $350k. Manly bought Tapau, Myles, Brown, Korasiuo, Walker, parcell, plus re signed cherry evans on 1.2 million. I highely doubt they could afford to pay most of his wages and stay under the cap. At best we would be paying half his wages if not more. What a waste of money, just admit it :slight_smile: