Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[BAGNF05]

Someone explain to me what silver bullet this coach will have, remembering the commitment (or lack of!) shown throughout the year and especially in the last game against the dogs. Is the plan to change all 13 players? Who knows..

Go and watch highlights of some of our games and the way sides strip us apart and ask yourself this.

If we had a second rower (preferably two) who was putting defensive pressure on opposing halves, would all those backline shifts have lead to tries?

A lot of our issues could be solved if we could go back in a time machine and grab a Beau Scott.

 

[Liam G]

Now that the dust begins to settle on the failed coup to remove Michael Maguire it is again the shoddy manipulative Fox so called journalists who are left scrambling to cover their exposed backsides after their failed tactics to parachute their choice of coach into the Wests Tigers head coaching job. Yes you know who you are !! Sitting smugly behind those 360 desks and other Fox panels now trying to rewrite history that you so naively tried to construct. Absolutely pathetic ! I have no doubts you will all try to continue the destabilisation tactics all through 2022. At least MM has the dignity and honesty to own his errors. On this occasion you have failed miserably with your dishonest tactics. It is clear that you didn't have the Broncos to put your collective boot into this year. So your unrelenting target has been MM and WT club. I look forward to seeing the egg on your faces next year.

 

[jadtiger]

It's the right decision.

Madge was a good selection when he started and he's had a horrible set of circumstances over the last three years. The results have been disapppointing but the disciplined approach to recruitment has meant we're in a good financial position for the first time in ages.

Madge therefore deserves to coach us next year. You recruit a coach to build something and you can point to the disappointing players being let go and the new young players coming in as evidence of progress at the club. The main thing is he is putting the club in a better position than what it was. And that can't be said for Potter (who wasn't really given a chance), Taylor (who stuffed his) and Cleary (who did more damage to our club than any other coach we've ever had).

Most importantly, it is important for our club's reputation that Madge be given next year. Tearing him down after re-signing him fits the media narrative and would really damage our ability to recruit a quality coach next time.

My one hesitation is that the club hasn't really backed Madge in a way that shows confidence in him. It looks like he's only just holding on, and that undermines both our ability to recruit and the message to the current players. Handicapping him in this way makes his job harder and lets players off the hook.

This isn't an excuse for Madge next year, whatever the circumstances we need to improve next year, but it wasn't well handled by the club and I think there needs to be work going into how to make the decision making process less public and how to develop better media strategies that mean we're not able to so easily be portrayed as a shambles.

Obviously, winning changes everything. I'm glad, whatever happens, that the club gave Madge the opportunity next year.

Agreed.

Not only that, people say it's Madge's team and they point to Tamou, Roberts and Leilua vs Cleary's Packer, Mybe and Reynolds. They conveniently leave out Laurie, Stefano and Blore.

On that point, Madge signed those guys for a total of $1 million a season ($550k of which is Leilua) and on very short contracts. He didn't trash our cap! Cleary's duds cost us 2.5 million and put us on the back foot for 4 years - we are LUCKY Matulino was medically retired or it would have been worse.

Every coach knows there is a risk players don't perform and these guys didn't, but they are on virtually nothing, so if you have someone better, who cares? Put them in reserves...the issue is he doesn't have anyone better, so he's playing the cards that have been dealt.

The reality is, with a side lacking depth, experience and talent, even the Roosters got towelled up this season.

We are seriously lacking players and I don't think Maguire is 100% responsible for that.


Matulino was the cheapest of the 4 signings and was pretty much busted when he arrived but gave his everything on the field.He also retired when he knew he just could not play anymore,he will always have my respect as a supporter of WT.He does not deserve to be called a Cleary "dud" unlike the other 3.I certainly agree with the rest of your post

He was on $800k and he was busted and Cleary knew that before he signed. Definition of dud signing.

I didn't say the guy couldn't play when fully fit or that he ripped off the club.


I dont know where you get the 800k from i heard it was about 500k-530k,certainly not cheap but acceptable

Here is a reference to the $800k.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/nrl-2019-wests-tigers-ryan-matterson-release-ben-matulino-retirement-17-million-war-chest/news-story/d6ab4fade18b7b5c965d75e260924168

Thanks for the link but it is Pooper making the claim so i am very reluctant to believe it

 

[PJ_]

Robbo congratulated Madge, calling him a fine coach on NRL360. Respected figure in the game. Now let him whip this roster into shape.

The roster he put together?

Whatever mate, half the marquee money was paid to major duds that hardly took the field. The young guys he did attract played well.

What’s been done with that money now it’s freed up?

If he signs whatever half-decent players that are currently available (Sims, Elliot, Peachy, Scott/Burns/Walker) and they don't work out people will be queuing to jump down his neck for those signings. But there isn't much else out there. So it's a bit of a hiding to nothing for him recruitment-wise for season '22.

4 or 5 of those players would bolster our team significantly IMO.


There was though. JAC, Finucane etc, and he couldn’t sign them either.

Didn't Finucane fall through because WT didn't want to give him the 4 year deal he was chasing (and got at Sharks)?
Happy we didn't go ahead with him for 4 years, Sharks will be lucky to get more than 1 year out of him on-field with all the head knocks he's been getting. JAC, meh, he's been on the decline a bit this year, IMO he will struggle at the Bulldogs just like he more than likely would of here. $700k or whatever he is on per season.

That's correct, we didn't fall for that trap - I'll be stunned if Finucane is still playing well in 3 years time let alone 4.

But his experience teaching our youngsters especially stef, twal and blore, on how to prepare etc would have been invaluable.
It would have been worth it for us to pay a 4th even if he had limited game time.
Big miss imo


It would be a criminal waste of money to pay Finucane what he wanted and then just watching him sit on the sidelines for 2 years like Packer

Don't think he would be sitting on the sideline for that long plus we wouldn't be paying him Packer money


He wanted 4 years at big money to come here,he is still a decent player but not cost effective for 4 years.The club got it right in not bowing down to what he wanted

600k is not big money for finucane compared to some of the trash we have

You don't base future decisions on past mistakes.

You don't get scared of making decisions due to past mistakes either. We seem to be a bit gun shy

 

[PJ_]

Robbo congratulated Madge, calling him a fine coach on NRL360. Respected figure in the game. Now let him whip this roster into shape.

The roster he put together?

Whatever mate, half the marquee money was paid to major duds that hardly took the field. The young guys he did attract played well.

What’s been done with that money now it’s freed up?

If he signs whatever half-decent players that are currently available (Sims, Elliot, Peachy, Scott/Burns/Walker) and they don't work out people will be queuing to jump down his neck for those signings. But there isn't much else out there. So it's a bit of a hiding to nothing for him recruitment-wise for season '22.

4 or 5 of those players would bolster our team significantly IMO.


There was though. JAC, Finucane etc, and he couldn’t sign them either.

Didn't Finucane fall through because WT didn't want to give him the 4 year deal he was chasing (and got at Sharks)?
Happy we didn't go ahead with him for 4 years, Sharks will be lucky to get more than 1 year out of him on-field with all the head knocks he's been getting. JAC, meh, he's been on the decline a bit this year, IMO he will struggle at the Bulldogs just like he more than likely would of here. $700k or whatever he is on per season.

That's correct, we didn't fall for that trap - I'll be stunned if Finucane is still playing well in 3 years time let alone 4.

But his experience teaching our youngsters especially stef, twal and blore, on how to prepare etc would have been invaluable.
It would have been worth it for us to pay a 4th even if he had limited game time.
Big miss imo


It would be a criminal waste of money to pay Finucane what he wanted and then just watching him sit on the sidelines for 2 years like Packer

Don't think he would be sitting on the sideline for that long plus we wouldn't be paying him Packer money

Close to it, he signed at Sharks for over 600k a season.

If nofo is on around 400k allegedly and tamou roughly the same, I'd have no trouble with him for 600k

Over paying someone just because others are also overpaid isn't smart business nor good cap management.

For the record my argument isn't about the money, I actually feel 600k a season is about right for him however any more than 2 or 3yrs and it's a massive gamble. Not many props are still producing at an elite level at 34 which is how old he'll be by the time his 4 yrs is up.

He wouldn't be playing prop at ours. Like you said, roughly 600k is not overpaying. My argument was that in order to sign him we might have to cop the 4th year wage.
It's not as if we have players banging down our doors.
We got a pretty decent war chest for nxt year.

 

[weststigers]

It's the right decision.

Madge was a good selection when he started and he's had a horrible set of circumstances over the last three years. The results have been disapppointing but the disciplined approach to recruitment has meant we're in a good financial position for the first time in ages.

Madge therefore deserves to coach us next year. You recruit a coach to build something and you can point to the disappointing players being let go and the new young players coming in as evidence of progress at the club. The main thing is he is putting the club in a better position than what it was. And that can't be said for Potter (who wasn't really given a chance), Taylor (who stuffed his) and Cleary (who did more damage to our club than any other coach we've ever had).

Most importantly, it is important for our club's reputation that Madge be given next year. Tearing him down after re-signing him fits the media narrative and would really damage our ability to recruit a quality coach next time.

My one hesitation is that the club hasn't really backed Madge in a way that shows confidence in him. It looks like he's only just holding on, and that undermines both our ability to recruit and the message to the current players. Handicapping him in this way makes his job harder and lets players off the hook.

This isn't an excuse for Madge next year, whatever the circumstances we need to improve next year, but it wasn't well handled by the club and I think there needs to be work going into how to make the decision making process less public and how to develop better media strategies that mean we're not able to so easily be portrayed as a shambles.

Obviously, winning changes everything. I'm glad, whatever happens, that the club gave Madge the opportunity next year.

Agreed.

Not only that, people say it's Madge's team and they point to Tamou, Roberts and Leilua vs Cleary's Packer, Mybe and Reynolds. They conveniently leave out Laurie, Stefano and Blore.

On that point, Madge signed those guys for a total of $1 million a season ($550k of which is Leilua) and on very short contracts. He didn't trash our cap! Cleary's duds cost us 2.5 million and put us on the back foot for 4 years - we are LUCKY Matulino was medically retired or it would have been worse.

Every coach knows there is a risk players don't perform and these guys didn't, but they are on virtually nothing, so if you have someone better, who cares? Put them in reserves...the issue is he doesn't have anyone better, so he's playing the cards that have been dealt.

The reality is, with a side lacking depth, experience and talent, even the Roosters got towelled up this season.

We are seriously lacking players and I don't think Maguire is 100% responsible for that.


Matulino was the cheapest of the 4 signings and was pretty much busted when he arrived but gave his everything on the field.He also retired when he knew he just could not play anymore,he will always have my respect as a supporter of WT.He does not deserve to be called a Cleary "dud" unlike the other 3.I certainly agree with the rest of your post

He was on $800k and he was busted and Cleary knew that before he signed. Definition of dud signing.

I didn't say the guy couldn't play when fully fit or that he ripped off the club.


I dont know where you get the 800k from i heard it was about 500k-530k,certainly not cheap but acceptable

Here is a reference to the $800k.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/nrl-2019-wests-tigers-ryan-matterson-release-ben-matulino-retirement-17-million-war-chest/news-story/d6ab4fade18b7b5c965d75e260924168



Thanks for the link but it is Pooper making the claim so i am very reluctant to believe it

Ok mate

 

[GCfan]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

 

[cochise]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

It is in my code of conduct, was in my code of conduct at my previous jobs and its in about 20 code of conducts I have written for small to medium businesses.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

It is in my code of conduct, was in my code of conduct at my previous jobs and its in about 20 code of conducts I have written for small to medium businesses.

Yeah with you.
I was heavily involved in the biggest infrastructure project in Australia and at times was very hard to refrain from comment or to clear the air when BS was being sent around. But if I did would’ve been punted or at least demoted.

 

[Tiger5150]

How very interesting and convenient that Tigers Public Enemy Number 1, fiction writer Michael Chammas, has a detailed interview with Chariman Mouth today in the SMH. Everytime Chairman Mouth opens his mouth he further erodes confidence in Club Leadership, in my opinon, and only reinforces that that is the major issues to be addressed before I, and I suspect many others, feel any confidence that things can improve in team performance.

Chammas, of course, is the prime WT rumour spreader and our Chairman loves media attention. Coincidence?? I think not.

I think the opposite.

The only way Wests tigers will get a good reputation with the media is by controlling the narrative.

This is one time I must commend Lee.

An Honest Q and A, immediately following all the articles and ongoing speculation just to bring everyone up to speed.

We need to be more forthcoming with our access to the media. If we don’t the media will only create stories anyway to generate the clicks. So we might as well use it to our advantage and give them what we want them to hear.

But to come out and state "we believe we are a destination club" and "there is a real smell of 2005 about this team" is just beyond laughable. Those sort of statements feed the media and public perception that we are an absolute laughing stock. It doesn't help in any way whatsoever.

People get worked up over nothing. Do you really think that non Tigers fans really care or remember this 10 mins later?

 

[cochise]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

It is in my code of conduct, was in my code of conduct at my previous jobs and its in about 20 code of conducts I have written for small to medium businesses.

Yeah with you.
I was heavily involved in the biggest infrastructure project in Australia and at times was very hard to refrain from comment or to clear the air when BS was being sent around. But if I did would’ve been punted or at least demoted.

I have had to disciplined people over their use of social media in the past.

 

[TigerSJ]

OK the review is over and Madge is staying on - I personally think it's a good thing especially if it brings about the necessary introspection that the football management as a group require, and results in the changes that need to be made. One thing I will note is the reply today from Madge in his statement was clear, precise and all class, and I can only hope that the players now go away and have a good long hard look at themselves. The players need to step up big time and if they have any doubts about the clubs direction and their role in it, they should be prepared to move on.

 

[BAGNF05]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

It is in my code of conduct, was in my code of conduct at my previous jobs and its in about 20 code of conducts I have written for small to medium businesses.

Anything in there about telling journos confidential information?

 

[GCfan]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

It is in my code of conduct, was in my code of conduct at my previous jobs and its in about 20 code of conducts I have written for small to medium businesses.

Not having a go at you or what you’ve posted Cochise, merely stating a thumbs may simply be a show of support for his coach and nothing more. I just find it sad that a simple emoji can taken on so many other meanings that may not be relative to the thumbs upperer’s intent. Guess that’s why I don’t have Facebook etc. hurts my head

 

[cochise]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

It is in my code of conduct, was in my code of conduct at my previous jobs and its in about 20 code of conducts I have written for small to medium businesses.

Anything in there about telling journos confidential information?

lol of course there is, but if my board of directors did that and I responded to that publicly I still wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[cochise]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

Geez it’s a new world when we’re questioning a bloke on the correct social media etiquette

It is in my code of conduct, was in my code of conduct at my previous jobs and its in about 20 code of conducts I have written for small to medium businesses.

Not having a go at you or what you’ve posted Cochise, merely stating a thumbs may simply be a show of support for his coach and nothing more. I just find it sad that a simple emoji can taken on so many other meanings that may not be relative to the thumbs upperer’s intent. Guess that’s why I don’t have Facebook etc. hurts my head

It is why a realisation about what you are doing is so important, I think it probably shows a lack of comprehension skills on his part but if you did that in a government department job you would be disciplined. I know of a health care worker who reposted an anti vax post for example who was spoken to about it.

It is probably not a big issue for a footballer, but in the past I would have disciplined more than 10 teachers over their social media posts. Some of those posts weren't even related to their jobs.

Anyway i have already said I'd leave this issue alone and it is way off topic so I'll end it here for a 2nd time lol

 

[Madge]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

He doesn’t have to agree with the post as a whole it can just be that he agrees with part of it. When people post something on here I might not agree with the whole post but something in it so I’d give it an upvote. Might be the same with him and honestly on social media these days people just like things because they are so used to just doing it. I wouldn’t look too much into it and I don’t think anyone has looked into it at all.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

How very interesting and convenient that Tigers Public Enemy Number 1, fiction writer Michael Chammas, has a detailed interview with Chariman Mouth today in the SMH. Everytime Chairman Mouth opens his mouth he further erodes confidence in Club Leadership, in my opinon, and only reinforces that that is the major issues to be addressed before I, and I suspect many others, feel any confidence that things can improve in team performance.

Chammas, of course, is the prime WT rumour spreader and our Chairman loves media attention. Coincidence?? I think not.

I think the opposite.

The only way Wests tigers will get a good reputation with the media is by controlling the narrative.

This is one time I must commend Lee.

An Honest Q and A, immediately following all the articles and ongoing speculation just to bring everyone up to speed.

We need to be more forthcoming with our access to the media. If we don’t the media will only create stories anyway to generate the clicks. So we might as well use it to our advantage and give them what we want them to hear.

But to come out and state "we believe we are a destination club" and "there is a real smell of 2005 about this team" is just beyond laughable. Those sort of statements feed the media and public perception that we are an absolute laughing stock. It doesn't help in any way whatsoever.

People get worked up over nothing. Do you really think that non Tigers fans really care or remember this 10 mins later?

Not getting worked up over it at all. No, non-Tigers fans wouldn't remember this 10 minutes later but you can bet your goolies they would of had a massive laugh at how stupid those statements are. Even diehard WT fans who would love to believe the club is anywhere near what Lee states it supposedly is are dumbfounded and amused by such statements. Feeds the narrative of us being a laughing stock with incompetent, deluded people steering our ship.

 

[Guest]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

I work in a similar world - did the environment ever change by staying quiet?

 

[cochise]


Not sure if posted already but interesting to see the future captains opinion

That makes me question him as a future captain. Shows a lack of maturity.

What it shows to me is that the players back the coach and have little respect for management.
I have started liking them again.

One player we like. I’m sure there’s some white ants.

So its ok to white ant as long as he is white anting someone who you don't like?

He didn’t address anyone specifically. He supported his head coach.

By agreeing with someone being critical of the management, I have had jobs where I would be heavily disciplined for that.

I work in a similar world - did the environment ever change by staying quiet?

That is a good point