old_man_tiger
Well-known member
Where do fans find the energy to argue about this stuff on a footy forum
Religion and Race - a new cornerstone for us?
- Thread starter barra
- Start date
old_man_tiger
Well-known member
@Nelson said:
Hmm, good point
Tigertigertiger
New member
I don't care if they worship the devil, as long as the players put in 100% every week
@old man tiger said:
I know… I really was only asking if there was a thought that our current crop of Polynesian/Christian players might become an asset to the club/team.
In hindsight... 😕
It's like a dinner party convo here - if you want it to go smoothly and keep a relaxed atmosphere don't bring up religion or politics lol!
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@stryker said:
So if they went with the other players to a part of the field to talk about fishing ,cooking ,chess that's cool ??
I just don't see the difference ??
bigsiro
Well-known member
2005 premiership was a proper miracle. For me that was divine intervention.
Go Tigers.
Go Tigers.
I believe religion can make surprising differences to performance.
My own story may be a small example. It is a corporate example rather than a pro sport example.
I am a director of the ANZ subsidiary of a huge global multinational. 6 years ago I was failing as a leader. It was a new experience for me, humbling and challenging. The essence of my failure was people weren't following me. People close to me were (ie team) but not across the organisation which is obviously critical in a leadership role.
At the time my faith was stagnant.
Two big things changed.
1\. I got clear honest feedback
2\. I found the solution in my Christian faith
Parking the honest feedback as that's a thread in itself as we all know some of our team have needed far more of that than they have recieved.
For me in our world I find it hard to find truth. Most behavioural 'truth' is merely one so called expert telling you their version. As a leader I struggled to find truly great examples to emulate. Great is often defined by the outcome rather than the character or integrity of the person (eg Steve Jobs etc).
Up to this point I had considered myself a Christian. Honestly, in hindsight I wasn't. I hadn't truly settled on if Jesus was a real man who walked this earth or a world changing, good story.
This changed. I read the bible for myself. I did the research or found people smarter than me to help me through the tough questions. I came to realise the most impactful leader in history was real. I found my example.
After realising that Jesus, had given his life for mine it became incredibly easy to focus on serving my team. Amongst other things I starting putting them before me just like I saw Jesus had done for me on a much larger scale. I took the hard ethical decision every time. I focused on what my team were good at, their strengths (how God had made them).
The impact on people around me was profound. People started following me like never before. They took strength from my belief in them and that they were safe to take risks and grow. They embraced who they were. They knew I would back them and 'go beyond my self interest' in standing up for them (like Christ had stood up for me).
I finally stopped giving people around me power over me. I stopped aspiring to copy other humans. It is amazing the power you take back by stopping copying others around you. Nearly everyone doesn't realise how much power they give other people over them. I gave this power to Christ.
So my story is a small one, but I hand on heart tell you my faith has been the key to my leadership success. Maybe it could be for our beloved Tigers.
Three weeks ago I travelled to the US to recieve an award for being a finalist (top 10) in the Global Great Manager awards. To my surprise my friends at work had nominated me some months earlier. Whilst I didn't win, I finished in the top 3 from across the globe.
6 years ago I was failing.
My own story may be a small example. It is a corporate example rather than a pro sport example.
I am a director of the ANZ subsidiary of a huge global multinational. 6 years ago I was failing as a leader. It was a new experience for me, humbling and challenging. The essence of my failure was people weren't following me. People close to me were (ie team) but not across the organisation which is obviously critical in a leadership role.
At the time my faith was stagnant.
Two big things changed.
1\. I got clear honest feedback
2\. I found the solution in my Christian faith
Parking the honest feedback as that's a thread in itself as we all know some of our team have needed far more of that than they have recieved.
For me in our world I find it hard to find truth. Most behavioural 'truth' is merely one so called expert telling you their version. As a leader I struggled to find truly great examples to emulate. Great is often defined by the outcome rather than the character or integrity of the person (eg Steve Jobs etc).
Up to this point I had considered myself a Christian. Honestly, in hindsight I wasn't. I hadn't truly settled on if Jesus was a real man who walked this earth or a world changing, good story.
This changed. I read the bible for myself. I did the research or found people smarter than me to help me through the tough questions. I came to realise the most impactful leader in history was real. I found my example.
After realising that Jesus, had given his life for mine it became incredibly easy to focus on serving my team. Amongst other things I starting putting them before me just like I saw Jesus had done for me on a much larger scale. I took the hard ethical decision every time. I focused on what my team were good at, their strengths (how God had made them).
The impact on people around me was profound. People started following me like never before. They took strength from my belief in them and that they were safe to take risks and grow. They embraced who they were. They knew I would back them and 'go beyond my self interest' in standing up for them (like Christ had stood up for me).
I finally stopped giving people around me power over me. I stopped aspiring to copy other humans. It is amazing the power you take back by stopping copying others around you. Nearly everyone doesn't realise how much power they give other people over them. I gave this power to Christ.
So my story is a small one, but I hand on heart tell you my faith has been the key to my leadership success. Maybe it could be for our beloved Tigers.
Three weeks ago I travelled to the US to recieve an award for being a finalist (top 10) in the Global Great Manager awards. To my surprise my friends at work had nominated me some months earlier. Whilst I didn't win, I finished in the top 3 from across the globe.
6 years ago I was failing.
@Mccarry said:
Great story Mccarry, thank you for sharing - really appreciate you hanging it out there as it is not easy.
You are correct saying how much we influence people around us, this can be negative or positive. When you see someone taking the positives from you and improving their lives be it either workwise, culturally or spiritually it is very rewarding.
Yes, let us hope it has a real positive affect on our Tigers and they can improve in the second half of the season.
I appreciate you feel that God helped you Mccarry and I'm sure that some sports people feel the same.
I personally think the same results can be accomplished through undertaking management training focusing on self leadership and encouraging emotional intelligence. I would rather understand my own strengths and weaknesses as well as identifying the same in my colleagues/staff. That way we can work together to overcome the weak areas and utilise the strong.
One problem with basing performance on faith is that there is a tendency to be too faithful…I. e. "God will look after me" it is my opinion that the only people who truly succeed in this world are those who have faith in themselves and the balls to take what they feel they deserve. In footy terms the squad has talent and puts the hard work in they just need mental strength to take the extra step.
I personally think the same results can be accomplished through undertaking management training focusing on self leadership and encouraging emotional intelligence. I would rather understand my own strengths and weaknesses as well as identifying the same in my colleagues/staff. That way we can work together to overcome the weak areas and utilise the strong.
One problem with basing performance on faith is that there is a tendency to be too faithful…I. e. "God will look after me" it is my opinion that the only people who truly succeed in this world are those who have faith in themselves and the balls to take what they feel they deserve. In footy terms the squad has talent and puts the hard work in they just need mental strength to take the extra step.
@stryker said:
I agree with some of what you say. Focusing on strengths is key. Focusing on strengths is also the way to overcome weaknesses.
I agree with waiting on faith without effort is a huge risk and mistake.
You are right that in our world the ones that 'succeed' have the 'balls' to take. Yes, taking leads to monetary and achievement based success. My journey taught me that I don't define success that way. I know I have it in me to take. I have met quite a number of ultra successful (billions and hundreds of millions) and I have found none of them have found peace in their soul. It reminds me that to gain the whole world at the expense of your soul is not a worthwhile exchange.
I truly hope that our tigers build their character based on faith. They have the talent but it often seems they don't have the will. A persons will often comes back to their 'why'.
I hope their team bonds come from faith rather than how I used to bond with my teams, pissing it up and being jerks together.
I hope our players can realise that the praise of another person is fleeting and instead play in service to each other as brothers.
I hope that their faith in Jesus throws their egos on the ground with all the contempt that comes from the stunning realisation that we are all but babies in a crib looking up try to judge a father that created the earth.
Even objectively I can see that our culture would be better taking its lessons from faith than other football players behaviours.
Stryker I know we both just want our beloved Tiges to be better versions of themselves. Perhaps our views are as simple as you want them to copy other humans and believe in their own internal wisdom and I want them to copy the most impactful leader in human history (Jesus and perhaps Paul to a much lessor extent)
Go the Tiges
Tim Sheens
Well-known member
@Mccarry said:
I agree with your third (and ultimate) paragraph and dislike people that take what they think they deserve, unless of course they actually deserve it. One of my main problems with a lot of religious groups is they do the same thing despite espousing otherwise.
I am working on a massive new home of one of the mega rich you alluded to above and hope by the time I am finished there that I will be able to help him become more generous with his ability and bucket loads of excess money.
@underdog said:
What makes you think that church going God fearing people don't partake in any of the things you mentioned?
Why is it that religious people are seen by society as being morally superior?
There's studies done on this that show that non religious countries fair way better than religious ones on a whole range of things such as crime rates, domestic violence, teenage pregnancy, health, well-being, happiness etc etc.
Yet for some bizarre reason people somehow think that praying to an invisible sky daddy somehow makes you a more moral member of society.
The difference between a religious person and a non believer is, a religious person disbelieves in 99 gods and a non believer disbelieves in 100.
@underdog said:
Agree.
I am sorry that you read any reply as a suggestion that a Christian person thinks they are better than another. Ironically to be Christian is to accept how bad we all truly are.
The point is about the base or the why from which someone builds their life. I am theorising that for our team to base their values on Christianity vs Footplayers around you is probably a good thing.
Christians and atheists will both still fail (sin). The common factor is both are humans.
Please provide a little more info on the study as otherwise it feels a little like dropping a percentage stat into an argument. There were 100s of studies on cigarettes not causing cancer.
My perspective on the new point you raised (which I think is contribution to society) is look at not for profit organisations and do the analysis on weighting Christian vs non Christian. It is taboo to say it but a lot of selfless good comes from those of faith. That said those doing the selfless good are still inherently flawed. We all are. It's a truth no sane person can deny.
The only thing of contention is do humans get do determine how good is good enough or did God come down and tell us.
@Mccarry said:
Essay:Atheism and world peace - RationalWiki http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:Atheism_and_world_peace (Share from CM Browser)
Think religion makes society less violent? Think again. - LA Times http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1101-zuckerman-violence-secularism-20151101-story.html (Share from CM Browser)
Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-secular-life/201410/secular-societies-fare-better-religious-societies (Share from CM Browser)
Need any more.
@Mccarry said:
I'm not saying Christians think they are better than everyone else maybe you misread, I said that for some reason society views a religious person as morally superior just because they state that they're religious.
I also don't buy the 'Christian values' thing either, what are Christian values and how do they differ from non-Christian values?
Christianity has nothing special to offer that can't be obtained through other means, and if it did offer better values or morals we would see this reflected in countries with a high population of Christians but we don't.
@the third said:
So you judge schools, scouts, local sports clubs, swimming teams, tv shows, annoying entertainers, family gatherings all as things that couldn't possibly be solutions?
On a more serious note, the disgusting issue you are referring to has been rife across most major institutions in our society. Picking on the church is like blaming your skin for skin cancer. Of course sickos are going to choose to operate in places they have power over their victims.
All institutions, ALL… failed the poor victims of these vile creatures. The church failed TERRIBLY. Humans failed. The Dept of Education failed. 1000s of families failed. It is horrible. Thinking it is proof one way or another of whether religion can bring meaning to your life is a bit of a leap.
That said I can see how you get there. The church and my beloved faith will be picking off scabs for generations because of what those vile creatures did. All the great work. All the volunteering and the charity.... Forgotten. Judged by the minority.
Probably like a Roosters player. In my mind they are all dog rooters.
Harvey
Well-known member
Can we discuss politics next?
