Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[Harvey]

I cannot understand how anybody can watch what Madge says and the product we put out on the field, and think he's a good coach. The fact he hasn't dropped Brooks once in his 3 years here says it all. Worst player in first grade can play like an absolute donkey and yet is guaranteed to be in the 17 the next week.

Sheens with someone like John Morris as assistant should've been the go. Let Sheens put the systems in place and oversee things like Bennett, and have Morris run the day to day. Kind of like how Souths are doing now with Bennett and Demetriou. Seems to be working pretty well for them. We obviously don't have the luxury of the rep players they have, but at least having some direction and a coach who doesn't discourage players from wanting to play at a club would help.

Madge is 5 years past his use by date, Sheens is 15

 

[GNR4LIFE]

You know who the real winners of this GF are?
The Dogs and the Broncos.

Who said we needed a draft?

We do. And the AFL system , still works both with academies and the draft .

The best players nominate themselves , for financial and top 30 reasons . Say a 3 round draft ? That’s 51 players .
The rest remain in their currrent academies , or sign contracts if not taken .
You have protections , like the father son rule to protect legacy names .
And if a team wants to keep their academy player , they trade their draft picks to whoever picks them etc .
If say the next Benji gets picked at 1, and he’s ours , then there’s predetermined trades that allow us to retain our asset, if he’s a generational player. Say 3 years of 1st round picks, obviously forfeiting the right to retain for those 3 years .
Or something of that ilk . It’s complicated , but scratches all backs.
And if a player won’t leave , then the team who retains his rights say , the next Benji , as an example , then we’d have to trade assets to retain etc .
I think you’d find , for most kids , the lure of big dollars , and a guaranteed top 30 contract , plus the prestige of getting picked , would negate any of the “I’m not going “ chat .
Plus don’t pick that player . Pick another one who is willing .
This happens ALLL THE TIME in the MLB draft , which contracts
Predetermined for that draft slot.

No we don’t. Potentially a rookie draft for any player not signed to a dev contract or a top 30 contract.
Penrith have proven that you don’t need to recuit Marquess for success, they are only doing what Melbourne figured out all those years ago in 2002.

Melbourne paid Hoffman , a then 16 year old , 170k to go to their system . Same for Inglis and Folau . That was unheard of , until the sharks paid Karl Filiga 200k , I believe ad a 17 year old. So no , they didn’t sign nobodies , they invested in the right juniors , and they should be commended , but a lot of the time that meant actual dollars for the family not just the systems. Sheesh the roosters just paid that kid from south’s close to a mil , and he hadn t played a game yet of u20s .

The current system is broken, and only benefits the few .

If they are signing onto first grade contracts. That is fair game. If they are paying a Ronald Volkman $50k to stick around in the 20s that’s a different story.

Were the above mentioned kids signed onto first grade contracts?


I personally wouldn’t care if I knew the roosters were paying 13 mil for thier team and we were paying 9.5. I would know , and adjust my expectations accordingly .

So because you know what we’re paying Vs the opposition it’s makes you feel better that we’d get belted forever? I agree, the salary cap is flawed but we need something to try to even the playing field.

We only want a level playing field because we can't compete. There's a salary cap and the NRL cover that. It's not a level playing field because we're at terribly run. How do the NRL stop that?

Agreed, if we had of kept ‘the big four’ we would prob be a consistent top eight side

Would we have been better this year if we had not let Matterson & Aloiai walk out on valid contracts? Who signed off on that decision?

Hey, we got monetary compensation. Because we’re so successful with bringing in money. Hasn’t helped us on the field though.

 

[tony soprano]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

Yes I know u have convinced yourself of that Mr toast.

 

[TillLindemann]

You know who the real winners of this GF are?
The Dogs and the Broncos.

Who said we needed a draft?

We do. And the AFL system , still works both with academies and the draft .

The best players nominate themselves , for financial and top 30 reasons . Say a 3 round draft ? That’s 51 players .
The rest remain in their currrent academies , or sign contracts if not taken .
You have protections , like the father son rule to protect legacy names .
And if a team wants to keep their academy player , they trade their draft picks to whoever picks them etc .
If say the next Benji gets picked at 1, and he’s ours , then there’s predetermined trades that allow us to retain our asset, if he’s a generational player. Say 3 years of 1st round picks, obviously forfeiting the right to retain for those 3 years .
Or something of that ilk . It’s complicated , but scratches all backs.
And if a player won’t leave , then the team who retains his rights say , the next Benji , as an example , then we’d have to trade assets to retain etc .
I think you’d find , for most kids , the lure of big dollars , and a guaranteed top 30 contract , plus the prestige of getting picked , would negate any of the “I’m not going “ chat .
Plus don’t pick that player . Pick another one who is willing .
This happens ALLL THE TIME in the MLB draft , which contracts
Predetermined for that draft slot.

No we don’t. Potentially a rookie draft for any player not signed to a dev contract or a top 30 contract.
Penrith have proven that you don’t need to recuit Marquess for success, they are only doing what Melbourne figured out all those years ago in 2002.

Melbourne paid Hoffman , a then 16 year old , 170k to go to their system . Same for Inglis and Folau . That was unheard of , until the sharks paid Karl Filiga 200k , I believe ad a 17 year old. So no , they didn’t sign nobodies , they invested in the right juniors , and they should be commended , but a lot of the time that meant actual dollars for the family not just the systems. Sheesh the roosters just paid that kid from south’s close to a mil , and he hadn t played a game yet of u20s .

The current system is broken, and only benefits the few .

If they are signing onto first grade contracts. That is fair game. If they are paying a Ronald Volkman $50k to stick around in the 20s that’s a different story.

Were the above mentioned kids signed onto first grade contracts?


I personally wouldn’t care if I knew the roosters were paying 13 mil for thier team and we were paying 9.5. I would know , and adjust my expectations accordingly .

So because you know what we’re paying Vs the opposition it’s makes you feel better that we’d get belted forever? I agree, the salary cap is flawed but we need something to try to even the playing field.

We only want a level playing field because we can't compete. There's a salary cap and the NRL cover that. It's not a level playing field because we're at terribly run. How do the NRL stop that?

Agreed, if we had of kept ‘the big four’ we would prob be a consistent top eight side

Would we have been better this year if we had not let Matterson & Aloiai walk out on valid contracts? Who signed off on that decision?

Hey, we got monetary compensation. Because we’re so successful with bringing in money. Hasn’t helped us on the field though.

We got Lucy and Offa as well though.

 

[fibrodreaming]

I’ve said this before , but we are one of the only elite competitions in the world , without a draft to go with the salary cap . Either don’t have a salary cap , and have all salaries public knowledge , or have a draft to help with the cap .

The NSWRL introduced a draft in 1991. Some players and coaches challenged it in the courts and the High Court upheld the challenge and the draft was thrown out. It lasted a year.

Fast forward to today. Imagine, say, Easts and other glamour clubs being denied the opportunity to pick the eyes out of the best juniors. How long before Polites challenged it in the courts ?

The only reason a draft works in the AFL is because everybody is prepared to accept it. It wouldn't survive if it were challenged in the courts.

That is not necessarily true, restraints of trade can win court challenges if they can be proven to be fair and reasonable. Examples of arguments for fair and reasonable restraints of trade include that they are important for the viability of the organisation and thus actually protect wages. It is why the salary cap would likely survive a legal challenge. If a sporting organisation could argue that the competition is more viable because of a draft than it could possibly survive a legal challenge.

I guess it’s theoretically possible to design a draft that will survive a court challenge in Australia. Or perhaps it would be better to get everyone’s agreement beforehand not to challenge it in the courts (similar to the AFL).

From time to time the NRL has re-considered a draft, but has not pressed on. I suspect because it sees the challenges which would be difficult, if not impossible, to overcome.

As you say, the viability of the NRL is an important consideration, which the court is obliged to consider. This was raised in the original case. However, the appeal Court found that while the NSWRL was seeking to assist the evenness of the competition, the Court did not accept that the draft was necessary to ensure the financial stability of the clubs.

You also mention that a draft could be approved if demonstrated to be fair and reasonable. But this was the sticking point on appeal. Part of this was the way the draft had been designed, but the fundamental objection for the court was that the draft is contrary to the common law principle that parties should be free to trade as they wish.

Justice Wilcox held that if you are compelling a person to enter into the service of someone they have not chosen, then the justification must be extra-ordinarily compelling for it to be said to be reasonable.

Moreover, Wilcox regarded the proposed internal draft as both anticompetitive and an illegal collective boycott. He said that: “It is difficult to see what policy purpose is achieved by leaving inviolate arrangements under which potential employers agree not to compete amongst themselves ...It is certainly not in the interests of employees.”

I only raised the NSWRL’s attempt to introduce a draft because a number of people keep saying that the NRL should introduce a draft. It is clearly easier said than done.

 

[TillLindemann]

I think some of our young fellas picking up experience this year will be as good as new signings. Don't forget we had the NRL's youngest squad. Look how good Stefano was by the end of the year. Jake Simpkin should be better next year for the experience this year, and I'm tipping big things for Laurie next year as well.

 

[avocadoontoast]

You know who the real winners of this GF are?
The Dogs and the Broncos.

Who said we needed a draft?

We do. And the AFL system , still works both with academies and the draft .

The best players nominate themselves , for financial and top 30 reasons . Say a 3 round draft ? That’s 51 players .
The rest remain in their currrent academies , or sign contracts if not taken .
You have protections , like the father son rule to protect legacy names .
And if a team wants to keep their academy player , they trade their draft picks to whoever picks them etc .
If say the next Benji gets picked at 1, and he’s ours , then there’s predetermined trades that allow us to retain our asset, if he’s a generational player. Say 3 years of 1st round picks, obviously forfeiting the right to retain for those 3 years .
Or something of that ilk . It’s complicated , but scratches all backs.
And if a player won’t leave , then the team who retains his rights say , the next Benji , as an example , then we’d have to trade assets to retain etc .
I think you’d find , for most kids , the lure of big dollars , and a guaranteed top 30 contract , plus the prestige of getting picked , would negate any of the “I’m not going “ chat .
Plus don’t pick that player . Pick another one who is willing .
This happens ALLL THE TIME in the MLB draft , which contracts
Predetermined for that draft slot.

No we don’t. Potentially a rookie draft for any player not signed to a dev contract or a top 30 contract.
Penrith have proven that you don’t need to recuit Marquess for success, they are only doing what Melbourne figured out all those years ago in 2002.

Melbourne paid Hoffman , a then 16 year old , 170k to go to their system . Same for Inglis and Folau . That was unheard of , until the sharks paid Karl Filiga 200k , I believe ad a 17 year old. So no , they didn’t sign nobodies , they invested in the right juniors , and they should be commended , but a lot of the time that meant actual dollars for the family not just the systems. Sheesh the roosters just paid that kid from south’s close to a mil , and he hadn t played a game yet of u20s .

The current system is broken, and only benefits the few .

If they are signing onto first grade contracts. That is fair game. If they are paying a Ronald Volkman $50k to stick around in the 20s that’s a different story.

Were the above mentioned kids signed onto first grade contracts?


I personally wouldn’t care if I knew the roosters were paying 13 mil for thier team and we were paying 9.5. I would know , and adjust my expectations accordingly .

So because you know what we’re paying Vs the opposition it’s makes you feel better that we’d get belted forever? I agree, the salary cap is flawed but we need something to try to even the playing field.

We only want a level playing field because we can't compete. There's a salary cap and the NRL cover that. It's not a level playing field because we're at terribly run. How do the NRL stop that?

Agreed, if we had of kept ‘the big four’ we would prob be a consistent top eight side

Would we have been better this year if we had not let Matterson & Aloiai walk out on valid contracts? Who signed off on that decision?

Hey, we got monetary compensation. Because we’re so successful with bringing in money. Hasn’t helped us on the field though.

We got Lucy and Offa as well though.

True but I’d take Matterson and Aloiai any day over those too.

 

[Aceshigh]

Obviously no signing news with you guys continually bagging the coach , we gotta move forward guys , hopefully some signings soon and then we can start bagging the club about new recruits

 

[TigerSJ]

I think it is obvious that success lies in a cohesive combination of Management, Coaching and Player Roster.
The Management need to provide the positive environment, quality facilities, direction and culture of a united and proud club (this has obviously been lacking on many occasions in the last decade and has been made to look even worse by the negative agendas of many in the footy media).
The Coaching team that will be in place for next season, depending on who gets the assistant jobs, needs to be united and working on the same page, and in unison with Recruitment and Retention. This also is going to be a big challenge at WTs. If they can do this then there should be no excuse that this coaching team are less than adequate to achieve results.
Finally the playing group.... our guys are a below the average NRL squad of players who take little responsibility for the way they play and show little pride in the jersey. The cliche that "skill and talent" are the floor and "character" is the ceiling, is blatantly obvious with this group. Our floor is set low to start with, and isn't lifted much higher with the lack of "winning, competitive" characters we have in the current group. There are no real leaders left at the club either (this is a huge problem at the WTs). Until the "weak willed" characters are moved out this group will never achieve greatness.
Unfortunately all of the above indicates to me that it will be some years before we get anywhere as a club, and the only road out must be led by young hungry players who love the club and each other. In the end as much as "ability" is clearly important, "attitude" plays a huge part in winning at this level.

 

[hsvjones]

Gees it been tough reading the last 20 pages...
We really need some actual signing news to get the morale up..
Fingers crossed this week but unlikely going off our history

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Gees it been tough reading the last 20 pages...
We really need some actual signing news to get the morale up..
Fingers crossed this week but unlikely going off our history

The last 6715 pages have been depressing.

 

[Krammy]

I’ve said this before , but we are one of the only elite competitions in the world , without a draft to go with the salary cap . Either don’t have a salary cap , and have all salaries public knowledge , or have a draft to help with the cap .

The NSWRL introduced a draft in 1991. Some players and coaches challenged it in the courts and the High Court upheld the challenge and the draft was thrown out. It lasted a year.

Fast forward to today. Imagine, say, Easts and other glamour clubs being denied the opportunity to pick the eyes out of the best juniors. How long before Polites challenged it in the courts ?

The only reason a draft works in the AFL is because everybody is prepared to accept it. It wouldn't survive if it were challenged in the courts.

That is not necessarily true, restraints of trade can win court challenges if they can be proven to be fair and reasonable. Examples of arguments for fair and reasonable restraints of trade include that they are important for the viability of the organisation and thus actually protect wages. It is why the salary cap would likely survive a legal challenge. If a sporting organisation could argue that the competition is more viable because of a draft than it could possibly survive a legal challenge.

I guess it’s theoretically possible to design a draft that will survive a court challenge in Australia. Or perhaps it would be better to get everyone’s agreement beforehand not to challenge it in the courts (similar to the AFL).

From time to time the NRL has re-considered a draft, but has not pressed on. I suspect because it sees the challenges which would be difficult, if not impossible, to overcome.

As you say, the viability of the NRL is an important consideration, which the court is obliged to consider. This was raised in the original case. However, the appeal Court found that while the NSWRL was seeking to assist the evenness of the competition, the Court did not accept that the draft was necessary to ensure the financial stability of the clubs.

You also mention that a draft could be approved if demonstrated to be fair and reasonable. But this was the sticking point on appeal. Part of this was the way the draft had been designed, but the fundamental objection for the court was that the draft is contrary to the common law principle that parties should be free to trade as they wish.

Justice Wilcox held that if you are compelling a person to enter into the service of someone they have not chosen, then the justification must be extra-ordinarily compelling for it to be said to be reasonable.

Moreover, Wilcox regarded the proposed internal draft as both anticompetitive and an illegal collective boycott. He said that: “It is difficult to see what policy purpose is achieved by leaving inviolate arrangements under which potential employers agree not to compete amongst themselves ...It is certainly not in the interests of employees.”

I only raised the NSWRL’s attempt to introduce a draft because a number of people keep saying that the NRL should introduce a draft. It is clearly easier said than done.

Good debate and points raised. I think this year the huge gap between the top say 6 teams and the rest has been widely discussed in commentary teams. The fact that the Titans made the finals winning - was it 10 games out of 24, highlights the gulf. If this shows up again next year it is quite possible that a draft or 'other way' of making the game fairer may come into play. I remember another poster mentioning something like a 'points allocation' for each team with players being given ratings. Who knows, but at the moment the salary cap is a farce.

 

[TigerWest]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

Well if Madge is a puppet and we fail in 2022, then it should be Sheens head on the chopping block.

Can't have it both ways.

Why should Sheens get only 1 year when Madge has had 3?

Isn’t that the whole problem?

If Madge was to go after 3, then put Sheens in and give him 3 (and he can’t get us there) then we need to keep doing it again with another coach and pretty soon we are 20 years not being in the finals?

By all accounts, the club and the coach have agreed to a long term strategy, NO one is coming atm, it takes time.

A short term, quick fix has been tried and failed in the past, but yet, you want to give it another shot, why?

 

[avocadoontoast]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

Well if Madge is a puppet and we fail in 2022, then it should be Sheens head on the chopping block.

Can't have it both ways.

Why should Sheens get only 1 year when Madge has had 3?

Isn’t that the whole problem?

If Madge was to go after 3, then put Sheens in and give him 3 (and he can’t get us there) then we need to keep doing it again with another coach and pretty soon we are 20 years not being in the finals?

By all accounts, the club and the coach have agreed to a long term strategy, NO one is coming atm, it takes time.

A short term, quick fix has been tried and failed in the past, but yet, you want to give it another shot, why?

When someone isn’t capable of doing their job to the standard required, changes need to be made. The club tried to secure someone else to take over from Madge but was unsuccessful in getting who they wanted. So what they’ve done is take the power away from Madge to choose his own assistants and put Sheens above him to make the key decisions.

The club knew there would be no improvement keeping Madge in charge which is why these changes have been made.

 

[cochise]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

Well if Madge is a puppet and we fail in 2022, then it should be Sheens head on the chopping block.

Can't have it both ways.

Why should Sheens get only 1 year when Madge has had 3?

Isn’t that the whole problem?

If Madge was to go after 3, then put Sheens in and give him 3 (and he can’t get us there) then we need to keep doing it again with another coach and pretty soon we are 20 years not being in the finals?

By all accounts, the club and the coach have agreed to a long term strategy, NO one is coming atm, it takes time.

A short term, quick fix has been tried and failed in the past, but yet, you want to give it another shot, why?

While I agree with a lot of what you say and believe that now the decision has been made that it is time to move on from this discussion. It is hard to argue that coaching isn't an area we need to make big improvements in moving forward and can completely understand why people would have their doubts that Madge is capable of that change.

 

[TigerWest]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

Well if Madge is a puppet and we fail in 2022, then it should be Sheens head on the chopping block.

Can't have it both ways.

Why should Sheens get only 1 year when Madge has had 3?

Isn’t that the whole problem?

If Madge was to go after 3, then put Sheens in and give him 3 (and he can’t get us there) then we need to keep doing it again with another coach and pretty soon we are 20 years not being in the finals?

By all accounts, the club and the coach have agreed to a long term strategy, NO one is coming atm, it takes time.

A short term, quick fix has been tried and failed in the past, but yet, you want to give it another shot, why?

When someone isn’t capable of doing their job to the standard required, changes need to be made. The club tried to secure someone else to take over from Madge but was unsuccessful in getting who they wanted. So what they’ve done is take the power away from Madge to choose his own assistants and put Sheens above him to make the key decisions.

The club knew there would be no improvement keeping Madge in charge which is why these changes have been made.

You, like me are not in a position to judge anybodies work in this environment?
The club has kept Madge on as head coach, which indicates that they have shown faith in the process (which they would of agreed to, btw).
If they had set it up the way you want, then the coach would have no responsibility for the season, the chairman heads a law firm, it wouldn’t happen, besides the fact NO ONE (worth there salt) would sign up to do the job the way you are hoping and then be expected to fall on there sword for Sheens?

 

[colinbh]

I want Harry Triguboff to buy the WT franchise and remove the existing Board, Chairperson and CEO. C'mon Harry, if you really love the Tigers, the time is NOW. Your mate Sheensy is back. Do it!!

OK, it wasn't really a signing suggestion. Sorry.

He wanted to and they wouldn't sell.

I worked for Meriton for about 5yrs and once asked him the same question and got the same answer, they wouldn't sell.

The story I heard was he would have agreed to buy the club if they'd given him 100% control. I.e. he didn't just want to contribute huge money, he wanted to run the footy business his own way.

The Wests and Balmain owners didn't want to become redundant. You can understand it, even if they were serial losers, they were financially stable enough to retain the club and didn't want to sell it off. Usually when a club gets sold to a private buyer, it's because the incumbent owners are insolvent and need to offload their assets (e.g. Newcastle, Manly, Souths). Whilst this was temporarily true of Balmain, it has never been true of Wests Ashfield - they are flush.

Board doesn't draw a wage.

And if you paid them what they are worth .....

They still wouldn't draw a wage.

Do you ever say anything positive about Westst's? I have never seen it if you have. What a miserable life you have.

Hey! Obviously you don't read all posts.

By the way what does "Westst's?" mean.

You - whoever you are - do not have to worry about my life - whether it is miserable or not.
If you don't like my posts, don't read them. Simples Ace.

I won"t. If you don"t know what WT"s means, you are following the wrong club.

 

[tigertuff]

Well time will tell the tale. It’s obvious that Madge has about 8 months to show results.
I agree it’s not going to be easy as everyone has put us in a too hard basket.
But being an optimist perhaps this group with a few tweaks around the roster can get us in better position next year.
Really our defence sucks a and that would be my number one priority.
Win a few early games get confidence up and things could change.
For me a good tough experienced centre 3/4, second row forward and ball playing lock are essential.

Didn't we get rid of a decent centre and an up and coming lock. Both of them were on minimum wage. Sad thing was the lock come through our development program and has youth on his side. The centre, lucky for him, is playing in a grand final next week. Do we ever learn.

 

[Wildcat777]

Bottom line most of our top 30 have hit their ceiling and it’s a very low ceiling. Okay we have a couple of youngsters who could be anything, but they are surrounded by players who just are not going to improve no matter who coaches them. The roster needs a major overhaul urgently

Agree we need first and a mongrel back row that can create fear in attack and defense. And centres that can run and defend. Every team in the comp counts us as 2 points. Cant think of a tram that doesn’t. So with our cattle we are a bottom 4 team atm. Hoping some change in the next 12 months. Will just have to wait and see. It is pretty obvious to me and all the other clubs.

 

[Russell]

I want Harry Triguboff to buy the WT franchise and remove the existing Board, Chairperson and CEO. C'mon Harry, if you really love the Tigers, the time is NOW. Your mate Sheensy is back. Do it!!

OK, it wasn't really a signing suggestion. Sorry.

He wanted to and they wouldn't sell.

I worked for Meriton for about 5yrs and once asked him the same question and got the same answer, they wouldn't sell.

The story I heard was he would have agreed to buy the club if they'd given him 100% control. I.e. he didn't just want to contribute huge money, he wanted to run the footy business his own way.

The Wests and Balmain owners didn't want to become redundant. You can understand it, even if they were serial losers, they were financially stable enough to retain the club and didn't want to sell it off. Usually when a club gets sold to a private buyer, it's because the incumbent owners are insolvent and need to offload their assets (e.g. Newcastle, Manly, Souths). Whilst this was temporarily true of Balmain, it has never been true of Wests Ashfield - they are flush.

Board doesn't draw a wage.

And if you paid them what they are worth .....

They still wouldn't draw a wage.

Do you ever say anything positive about Westst's? I have never seen it if you have. What a miserable life you have.

Hey! Obviously you don't read all posts.

By the way what does "Westst's?" mean.

You - whoever you are - do not have to worry about my life - whether it is miserable or not.
If you don't like my posts, don't read them. Simples Ace.

I won"t. If you don"t know what WT"s means, you are following the wrong club.

That sounds negative to me.