The clubs cooked

[GNR4LIFE]

But why do we need to wait another 2 years or whatever people are saying? It's not going to work, chances of it working are less than 5%. We can all see it and predict it.

It’s the never ending story with this club. ”Just give them another two years”, “In three years we’re going to have a gun side”. Guess what? We never do. This club is all talk and no action. And they constantly put a line through the present.

 

[Tom Shines]

But why do we need to wait another 2 years or whatever people are saying? It's not going to work, chances of it working are less than 5%. We can all see it and predict it.

Throwing Benji in the deep end like this isn't giving him a fair chance. Getting him to come up through the ranks under the mentorship of a solid coach when all the pathways are set up for coaches is giving him a fair chance. The way we are setting out to do things is only leading to him being terminated next year and Richo and all saying "We need another build up".. we've all seen this before.

is there another option ..aside from no longer supporting the team?

It doesn’t matter who the coach is …until the squad is improved further ..there will be no improvement in the results …

 

[tig_prmz]

is there another option ..aside from no longer supporting the team?

It doesn’t matter who the coach is …until the squad is improved further ..there will be no improvement in the results …

Nothing we can do but discuss..

Most people on here have supported the club for 20+ years, don't think there would be many that would "stop supporting"... just the interest will keep weaning off.

I disagree regarding the squad, it's not the biggest problem..

 

[Eternal Tiger]

I don't see Bennett or Bellamy doing better with this abysmal squad, which was compiled by the worst Management in NRL, and possibly, Australian sport history.

 

[Jolls]

I posted much of this in the sack Benji thread - but it is equally as relevant here.

We have a simple game plan that isn't being executed - is that on the coach or the players? You can debate that until the cows come home as it is subjective. If we do some comparative analysis, taking the emotion out of the discussion, you can make a more educated decision. The team closest to us in recent history is the dogs. They are currently sitting in the 8 and have the bye in front of them.

Take the current roster situation off the board and look at the trajectory of both clubs:

• Dogs performance was on par with ours.
• Dogs sign a proven administrator in Gus - we sign a proven administrator but later in the timeline.
• Dogs signed a bunch of quality players and a new (but experienced coach) but performance does not improve - we sign Api, Papalii, Klemmer, unearth Bula, sign Olam and appoint Benji - no change.
• Dogs have heaps of internal dramas as culture is addressed; fans and the media label Ciraldo as a dud and want him sacked - Tigers fans and media call for Benjis head.
• Dogs sign a bunch of fringe FG quality players from other clubs and add a couple of top tier players - currently sitting in the top eight. Tigers make it clear they are going to offload a buch of deadwood and embark on a mid year recruiting raid of the UK. Tigers sign a marquee half and a quality centre/wing. Start offloading underperformers.

it is clear that we are taking the same steps towards improvement as the Dogs did but are a little further behind in the timeline.

Is the club cooked? Based on comparative analysis of an equally poorly run club that has turned it around the answer is No. Are we currently setting the conditions for success? I argue that the answer is yes. Can you guarantee success - too many variables; but you can see that we are treading the same path that other clubs have recently taken to success. Souths. Penrith and Dogs are pretty good examples of what success could look like.

 

[gregjm87]

I don't see Bennett or Bellamy doing better with this abysmal squad, which was compiled by the worst Management in NRL, and possibly, Australian sport history.

But Bennett and Bellamey would be able to recruit a better roster.

Benji has got Luai through the door, but on a massive contract. He was also involved in the decisions to recruit Klemmer, Bateman, Sullivan, Sezer, Olam, Alaimalo. Extended Staines, Twal, Seyfarth. I don't think he can entirely blame the previous management although I also understand it's not practical to completely overhaul the roster inside two seasons given there just isn't enough quality off contract externally.

It remains to be seen if Benji has enough pulling power to improve the roster. However with Papali'i gone, Utoikamanu apparently going and Galvin wanting out the early signs are not good.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I posted much of this in the sack Benji thread - but it is equally as relevant here.

We have a simple game plan that isn't being executed - is that on the coach or the players? You can debate that until the cows come home as it is subjective. If we do some comparative analysis, taking the emotion out of the discussion, you can make a more educated decision. The team closest to us in recent history is the dogs. They are currently sitting in the 8 and have the bye in front of them.

Take the current roster situation off the board and look at the trajectory of both clubs:

• Dogs performance was on par with ours.
• Dogs sign a proven administrator in Gus - we sign a proven administrator but later in the timeline.
• Dogs signed a bunch of quality players and a new (but experienced coach) but performance does not improve - we sign Api, Papalii, Klemmer, unearth Bula, sign Olam and appoint Benji - no change.
• Dogs have heaps of internal dramas as culture is addressed; fans and the media label Ciraldo as a dud and want him sacked - Tigers fans and media call for Benjis head.
• Dogs sign a bunch of fringe FG quality players from other clubs and add a couple of top tier players - currently sitting in the top eight. Tigers make it clear they are going to offload a buch of deadwood and embark on a mid year recruiting raid of the UK. Tigers sign a marquee half and a quality centre/wing. Start offloading underperformers.

it is clear that we are taking the same steps towards improvement as the Dogs did but are a little further behind in the timeline.

Is the club cooked? Based on comparative analysis of an equally poorly run club that has turned it around the answer is No. Are we currently setting the conditions for success? I argue that the answer is yes. Can you guarantee success - too many variables; but you can see that we are treading the same path that other clubs have recently taken to success. Souths. Penrith and Dogs are pretty good examples of what success could look like.

A well compiled narrative. A common sense view but most on here don't see the big picture-----or have common sense?
Just vent their anger and frustration on everything Wests Tigers. Same Mr. Negatives!
Time to take a deep breath, fingers off the keyboard, and give the new management, CEO, Coach time to steady the ship. It appears to be happening.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

I reckon signing Benji as our FG coach was a "well of desperation" from our Board.

I admire Benji for what he did as a player and as a family man, he's got his priorities right.

I admire him for his willingness to take on the duty of 1st grade coach.

But I reckon someone should have had the guts to stand up and say his appt. was not the correct road to follow.
Was Shane Flanagan interviewed for the coaching roll? If he was and was turned down by the board, what a pity. Benji could have served an apprenticeship in some way under Flanagan for however long he was signed for, then Benji takes over as 1st grade coach if he goes well.
I feel Benji may well go from an admired immortal to a failure if things don't start to improve greatly in the near future, and that would be such a pity.

No Flanagan was not interviewed because of pep tides drama. The club wanted not to be associated with it... they were not willing to forgive a fellow human. So the tides of loss continue. And Hapi to take your money gelis is a perfect human. No mistakes in his life at all.

 

[jirskyr]

I posted much of this in the sack Benji thread - but it is equally as relevant here.

We have a simple game plan that isn't being executed - is that on the coach or the players? You can debate that until the cows come home as it is subjective. If we do some comparative analysis, taking the emotion out of the discussion, you can make a more educated decision. The team closest to us in recent history is the dogs. They are currently sitting in the 8 and have the bye in front of them.

Take the current roster situation off the board and look at the trajectory of both clubs:

• Dogs performance was on par with ours.
• Dogs sign a proven administrator in Gus - we sign a proven administrator but later in the timeline.
• Dogs signed a bunch of quality players and a new (but experienced coach) but performance does not improve - we sign Api, Papalii, Klemmer, unearth Bula, sign Olam and appoint Benji - no change.
• Dogs have heaps of internal dramas as culture is addressed; fans and the media label Ciraldo as a dud and want him sacked - Tigers fans and media call for Benjis head.
• Dogs sign a bunch of fringe FG quality players from other clubs and add a couple of top tier players - currently sitting in the top eight. Tigers make it clear they are going to offload a buch of deadwood and embark on a mid year recruiting raid of the UK. Tigers sign a marquee half and a quality centre/wing. Start offloading underperformers.

it is clear that we are taking the same steps towards improvement as the Dogs did but are a little further behind in the timeline.

Is the club cooked? Based on comparative analysis of an equally poorly run club that has turned it around the answer is No. Are we currently setting the conditions for success? I argue that the answer is yes. Can you guarantee success - too many variables; but you can see that we are treading the same path that other clubs have recently taken to success. Souths. Penrith and Dogs are pretty good examples of what success could look like.

I agree and I've said before I thought Bulldogs were a few years ahead of us on their current plan, even to the point where their worst performances were a few years before ours (they only won 6 games total in 2020-2021).

The main difference I think is Bulldogs do not have the same volume of upper-tier juniors coming through, but their NSW Cup sides are way better than ours.

 

[jirskyr]

But why do we need to wait another 2 years or whatever people are saying? It's not going to work, chances of it working are less than 5%. We can all see it and predict it.

But that's purely your opinion. It's not an unreasonable opinion, but you are trying to position it as fact, as inevitable. Far from it.

 

[happy_tiger]

I'd be over the moon if we came 9th like we used to.

It will be a shock if we win 4 games

 

[tig_prmz]

But that's purely your opinion. It's not an unreasonable opinion, but you are trying to position it as fact, as inevitable. Far from it.

All of us are merely stating opinions. It may sound or come across as a fact to you is because I am saying it's the most likely scenario. You may choose to disagree but a wide majority, whether they are Tigers supporters or not would agree with that opinion. Those in the media still supporting Benji will turn on him this time next year. We will see more and more articles like the Paul Crawley one and Paul Gallen's shot at Benji on 100% Footy. It will keep happening. I don't see how this is giving him a fair go or doing Benji Marshall justice.

I heard Benji say last year or something that "my club needs me" and that's why he is taking on this role. He just simply isn't qualified enough and he is up against those with a 10-15+ year pedigree of coaching. A quick skim through the teams and potentially Todd Payten/ AOB may have less than 10 years of coaching (assistant/Head Coach), ignoring Rabbitohs/Eels. All the coaches have been in and around high performance teams most of their working lives just like Benji, but they've all done extra work to get coaching experience.

Ciraldo has done extra courses in America to learn what is required for high performance athletes. Ryles shadowed Eddie Jones. There is so much more to coaching now than "I've been in the game long enough". Benji's so called mentor is Wayne Bennett and most of his mentees have been unsuccessful because Wayne cannot coach coaches, he can only coach players.

I have no idea how we can expect Benji to compete with these guys? Who have we employed to provide him support? Or even the reserve grade and assistant coaches? I can understand Benji being a head coach if there is a coaching director of some kind but we don't have any.

All of this is just a recipe for disaster. The only reason you or anyone else has to keep going on with this experiment is "we have already committed to it".. That is simply not good enough especially when there are other candidates available. The work here needs to be done by a seasoned professional and we have hired less than an amateur to do it.

I have no other way to explain it, maybe you get it, maybe you don't.

 

[Jolls]

All of us are merely stating opinions. It may sound or come across as a fact to you is because I am saying it's the most likely scenario. You may choose to disagree but a wide majority, whether they are Tigers supporters or not would agree with that opinion. Those in the media still supporting Benji will turn on him this time next year. We will see more and more articles like the Paul Crawley one and Paul Gallen's shot at Benji on 100% Footy. It will keep happening. I don't see how this is giving him a fair go or doing Benji Marshall justice.

I heard Benji say last year or something that "my club needs me" and that's why he is taking on this role. He just simply isn't qualified enough and he is up against those with a 10-15+ year pedigree of coaching. A quick skim through the teams and potentially Todd Payten/ AOB may have less than 10 years of coaching (assistant/Head Coach), ignoring Rabbitohs/Eels. All the coaches have been in and around high performance teams most of their working lives just like Benji, but they've all done extra work to get coaching experience.

Ciraldo has done extra courses in America to learn what is required for high performance athletes. Ryles shadowed Eddie Jones. There is so much more to coaching now than "I've been in the game long enough". Benji's so called mentor is Wayne Bennett and most of his mentees have been unsuccessful because Wayne cannot coach coaches, he can only coach players.

I have no idea how we can expect Benji to compete with these guys? Who have we employed to provide him support? Or even the reserve grade and assistant coaches? I can understand Benji being a head coach if there is a coaching director of some kind but we don't have any.

All of this is just a recipe for disaster. The only reason you or anyone else has to keep going on with this experiment is "we have already committed to it".. That is simply not good enough especially when there are other candidates available. The work here needs to be done by a seasoned professional and we have hired less than an amateur to do it.

I have no other way to explain it, maybe you get it, maybe you don't.

I think you have hit the nail on the head in relation to Benji - if the club are backing him they need to surround him with the right level of support. If you recall the support was all pulled together by the previous management team. Let's see what support plan Richo comes up before we go throwing Benji on the scrap heap.

 

[supercoach]

We can judge Benji when he has 17 players capable of competing against most teams. At present they would battle to make the top five in the reserve grade comp.

You watch how Most teams, it’s with speed and power, we are slow and lack power. You can’t coach it, a player like Twal could train every day for year, but he is always going to be a plodder.

Okay Benji is a work in progress, but before we show him the door like all the other coaches give him some cattle that can compete

 

[weststigers]

I agree and I've said before I thought Bulldogs were a few years ahead of us on their current plan, even to the point where their worst performances were a few years before ours (they only won 6 games total in 2020-2021).

The main difference I think is Bulldogs do not have the same volume of upper-tier juniors coming through, but their NSW Cup sides are way better than ours.

Not the only difference, but a key difference is the depth the Dogs can draw on due to their recruitment. In fairness, everyone kind of laughed at all the utilities they bought, but it filled gaps while they were upgrading each roster position. As those positions were upgraded, they released the surplus.

We seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Juniors who probably aren't quite ready want game time and/or get offended and want out if a player is signed in their position.

Current players are sick of losing and want out.

No one on the market + losing team makes us a hard sell to top talent.

We supposedly have good juniors coming through, but often we are talking about 16 and 17 year olds...we still need to put a competetive squad on the park until these guys are ready (or even make it at all).

The momentum of all these things seems to be pushing against us.

Seems like Richo is trying everything and I'm thankful we have a guy that has cleaned this type of mess up before. It really is our only shining light this season. Next season, I just hope Luai makes the difference we need to at least get off the bottom.

 

[tig_prmz]

We can judge Benji when he has 17 players capable of competing against most teams. At present they would battle to make the top five in the reserve grade comp.

You watch how Most teams, it’s with speed and power, we are slow and lack power. You can’t coach it, a player like Twal could train every day for year, but he is always going to be a plodder.

Okay Benji is a work in progress, but before we show him the door like all the other coaches give him some cattle that can compete

I think it's important to play to their strengths.
Twal is a plodder, but can be a workforce.
Pole is a liability, but can be an explosive impact player at the very least.
Olam is error prone and has poor decision making but we have all seen what he could do at Storm just 2 years ago.

We need to learn to get the best out of our players. Yes the squad isn't the best, but we need to learn to make them better, just like when Luai, Turuva etc come here, we are contributing to them becoming better players rather than leaning on them to make our squad better.

 

[BrissieTiger67]

Nothing we can do but discuss..

Most people on here have supported the club for 20+ years, don't think there would be many that would "stop supporting"... just the interest will keep weaning off.

I disagree regarding the squad, it's not the biggest problem..

I'm checking out of each year earlier and earlier which my wife loves but I hate 😭😆

 

[jirskyr]

All of us are merely stating opinions. It may sound or come across as a fact to you is because I am saying it's the most likely scenario. You may choose to disagree but a wide majority, whether they are Tigers supporters or not would agree with that opinion. Those in the media still supporting Benji will turn on him this time next year. We will see more and more articles like the Paul Crawley one and Paul Gallen's shot at Benji on 100% Footy. It will keep happening. I don't see how this is giving him a fair go or doing Benji Marshall justice.

I heard Benji say last year or something that "my club needs me" and that's why he is taking on this role. He just simply isn't qualified enough and he is up against those with a 10-15+ year pedigree of coaching. A quick skim through the teams and potentially Todd Payten/ AOB may have less than 10 years of coaching (assistant/Head Coach), ignoring Rabbitohs/Eels. All the coaches have been in and around high performance teams most of their working lives just like Benji, but they've all done extra work to get coaching experience.

Ciraldo has done extra courses in America to learn what is required for high performance athletes. Ryles shadowed Eddie Jones. There is so much more to coaching now than "I've been in the game long enough". Benji's so called mentor is Wayne Bennett and most of his mentees have been unsuccessful because Wayne cannot coach coaches, he can only coach players.

I have no idea how we can expect Benji to compete with these guys? Who have we employed to provide him support? Or even the reserve grade and assistant coaches? I can understand Benji being a head coach if there is a coaching director of some kind but we don't have any.

All of this is just a recipe for disaster. The only reason you or anyone else has to keep going on with this experiment is "we have already committed to it".. That is simply not good enough especially when there are other candidates available. The work here needs to be done by a seasoned professional and we have hired less than an amateur to do it.

I have no other way to explain it, maybe you get it, maybe you don't.

So that's all well and good, but now park the conversation until the end of 2025 to see what actually happens.

I don't have an opinion really whether Benji will succeed or not, but my opinion is definitely that he should be given time (2 years minimum) to try and turn the club's fortunes around. I am never supportive of cutting a coach free inside the first year, not even with Sheens last year.

I am also not arguing that we should stick with him because we already picked him, i.e. double down on a mistake; I am arguing that the previous administration believed Benji was capable and the current CEO has done nothing except back Benji 100% in the media, so they should give him the time and support to do what he was hired to do.

And you cannot say "a wide majority would agree with that opinion" - you have nothing to base that on.

 

[glebe tiger]

We have no depth. Current squad even our best starting lineup are no world beaters lot of average players. Lacking speed and size have for a while. Just see it when the guys play they're kids vs men atm. The errors last game was cringeworthy.

 

[Spartan117]

The club WAS COOKED.

SEN League: "It's not about money for Lachy!" Tigers CEO Shane Richardson on Sportsday!

Media file: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirec...fm/NTETP9710988684.mp3?updated=1718266339#t=0

Not anymore, idiots are gone.