Coronavirus Outbreak

[Tiger5150]

I hope that our CMO Paul Kelly knows better than his namesake MP Craig Kelly and some stuff posted on here after stating that there is “no evidence” that Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) is useful in combatting Covid-19, plus he did not want to give credence “to views that I just don’t agree with and are not scientifically based”.

Craig Kelly is arguably the dumbest politician in Australia. Whether it's climate science, vaccines, whatever - you can count on him to talk absolute rubbish.

Yeah, we can certainly agree that Craig the captain's pick is up there on that list, though I was posting more in regard to the CMO's opinions on the efficacy of Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective) with Covid 19, which was a hot topic in this thread.


Genuinely havent seen his opinions on the efficacy of Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective), what are they?

How well do they align with https://c19ivermectin.com/?

Edit: I have re-read your post and think I can parse his opinion and the answer to my question.

I still have no great opinion on it, having only perused some of that on here and been put off by the researcher on the original video, so probably should look past that. Might look further into it and in the meantime, relying on officials here and abroad.

I also dont have a strong opinion on it because I dont have great knowledge on it. I do have a strong opinion on the seemingly knee jerk reaction here as well as in the media about it that it seems to be an automatic assumption that it is some Trumpian chloroquine hoax. There is a lot of published peer reviewed studies on Ivermectin (a drug which the clinical evidence shows is not statistically effective), its a well tested drug. I dont get the apparent suppression of it (also the Twitter banning). Very concerning.

 

[Tiger5150]

The efficacy of the vaccines are interesting. My initial thought was stuff the Oxford vaccine with 60% efficacy but I heard an immunologist talking today and the undercurrent was that the Oxford vaccine may stop people getting the virus bad.

We need to get to herd immunity though and personally I think the government should just purchase more of the 90%+ vaccines.

I posted a video a while back in this thread by Bret Weinstein. In that video they discuss the vaccines in depth. IT is explained that the initial results for the Oxford vaccine achieved 60% efficacy but then they somehow "accidently" supplied the vaccine in the tests at 50% strength doses at at that reduced dosage it achieved >90% efficacy and that the efficacy of the publicly supplied doses will be >90% for the Oxford vaccine.

That video also explains the Oxford vaccine is based on 100yo thoroughly tested technology whereas the MRNA vaccines are completely new and the technology is unproven over time.

If my turn rolls around for the vaccine, I will be getting the Oxford or nothing.

 

[Tiger5150]

The efficacy of the vaccines are interesting. My initial thought was stuff the Oxford vaccine with 60% efficacy but I heard an immunologist talking today and the undercurrent was that the Oxford vaccine may stop people getting the virus bad.

We need to get to herd immunity though and personally I think the government should just purchase more of the 90%+ vaccines.

I thought I heard a week or two ago that the Oxford vaccine came up to 90% plus with an initial half dose followed up with a full dose.

I haven't heard that since.

Was I imagining things or did someone else hear that as well?

I have heard some people also say that the criteria set for by the developers of the Oxford vaccine was very high, giving the impression that they had set a higher standard or expectation for their vaccine than other developers.

That is corret, I posted a video about it previously. Additionally the technology used is approaching 100yo and is well tested.

 

[Tiger5150]

The efficacy of the vaccines are interesting. My initial thought was stuff the Oxford vaccine with 60% efficacy but I heard an immunologist talking today and the undercurrent was that the Oxford vaccine may stop people getting the virus bad.

We need to get to herd immunity though and personally I think the government should just purchase more of the 90%+ vaccines.

To be honest the rest of the world needs the 90%+ vaccines at the moment. We can make the AstraZeneca's vaccine here. It doesn't need any special environmental storage (special fridges). It will be fine for the initial roll-out and will do the job needed. We can always move to other vaccines later when they are more readily available and we have the facilities to make them here as well, rather than having to import them.

It can't though get us to herd immunity can it. That is my concern. What is really going to change. Mind you I can do everything I want to do right now.


With the low numbers already in Australia it won't take much to knock it out all together, along with better quarantine protocols. The term herd immunity is being misused a little at the moment. If there ends up being no community transmission as a result of the vaccine then it has done it's job.

WE cant shut the gates forever and when the rest of the world gets on with things and does achieve herd immunity, we run the risk of being posted as an exposed outpost.

Having said that, the Oxford vaccine (manufactered here) can achieve >90% efficacy.

 

[mike]

It isn’t crazy to question all this

We are being forced to wear masks, social distance, no contact, endure lock downs, travel restrictions, limits on gatherings, check in at all times wherever you are, police each other’s compliance, etc

And now the push for vaccination is gathering pace. Not mandatory but in practice it will endeavour to be so with various mechanisms being employed by government but also by corporate juggernauts who are flourishing through this nonsense

And the approach is very similar all across the world, almost co-ordinated

All for something that in Australia has 28,700 people having tested positive using a PCR test even the WHO acknowledges as producing a very high level of false positives (which the video discusses). ‬ ‪Of those just over 900 have died most of whom were elderly or had serious health issues‬ ‪

It’s not about fake deaths, it’s about questionable statistics. It’s about dying “with” covid not “of” covid. Get a positive test, die of anything in the following (varies) 28 dyas and it’s a covid death irrespective of what you actually die of. And all the field hospitals, mass graves and overflowing hospitals are what is being told to you by the media and you believe it as gospel, because they would never lie to you

Yet if you question it the labels come out. Conspiracy theorist, Flat earther, and the favourite, a Denier

I question it all

It’s ok to question, it’s not OK to deny the facts. It is about him calling the deaths normal and nothing out of the ordinary. The facts don’t bear this out.

If I have diabetes and catch Covid19 and I get sick enough that I have to be admitted to hospital. During hospitalisation I and the staff are unable to control my blood sugar levels. I go into a coma and as a result of uncontrollable high blood sugar levels I die. Did I die because of diabetes or did I die because I caught Covid19? The answer is I died because I caught Covid19.

Generally viruses themselves don’t kill you directly, but you die as a result of either the complications brought on by the virus or third party infections as a result of a weakened immune system caused by the virus.

The morbidity of many Covid19 patents is also bad, very bad. Although they may not have died, but they can have life long complications and never fully recover to back like they were before they got Covid19.

 

[earl]

It’s a form of superiority. Superiority of thought, superiority of science, superiority of opinion. And superiority is a dangerous thing, no one’s views are the only view and to dismiss them is a dangerous approach

I haven't listened to that link but you are completely wrong here. There is superiority of thought because people who believe in conspiracy theories do not think correctly. This is a factual point.

I made this point earlier in this thread. The scientific method doesn't care about all this nonsense that you are going on about. It's rational and logical and here is the key you can prove or disprove it.

So it's very simple:-

1. State your premise.
2. Test your premise.
3. If your premise works then awesome you win.

It's not political. It's not okay to deny facts. Your opinion is meaningless. My opinion is meaningless. No one's opinion matters. Facts matter.

Until you get your head around using principles and logic and reason you are going to be a fool.

I should add even with using rigor in analysis and testing dodgy science happens all the time. Trying to bypass the rigor is freaken nuts.

 

[Curly_Tiger]

It isn’t crazy to question all this

We are being forced to wear masks, social distance, no contact, endure lock downs, travel restrictions, limits on gatherings, check in at all times wherever you are, police each other’s compliance, etc

And now the push for vaccination is gathering pace. Not mandatory but in practice it will endeavour to be so with various mechanisms being employed by government but also by corporate juggernauts who are flourishing through this nonsense

And the approach is very similar all across the world, almost co-ordinated

All for something that in Australia has 28,700 people having tested positive using a PCR test even the WHO acknowledges as producing a very high level of false positives (which the video discusses). ‬ ‪Of those just over 900 have died most of whom were elderly or had serious health issues‬ ‪

It’s not about fake deaths, it’s about questionable statistics. It’s about dying “with” covid not “of” covid. Get a positive test, die of anything in the following (varies) 28 dyas and it’s a covid death irrespective of what you actually die of. And all the field hospitals, mass graves and overflowing hospitals are what is being told to you by the media and you believe it as gospel, because they would never lie to you

Yet if you question it the labels come out. Conspiracy theorist, Flat earther, and the favourite, a Denier

I question it all

It’s ok to question, it’s not OK to deny the facts. It is about him calling the deaths normal and nothing out of the ordinary. The facts don’t bear this out.

If I have diabetes and catch Covid19 and I get sick enough that I have to be admitted to hospital. During hospitalisation I and the staff are unable to control my blood sugar levels. I go into a coma as a result of uncontrollable high blood sugar levels I die. Did I die because of diabetes or did I die because I caught Covid19? The answer is I died because I caught Covid19.

Generally viruses themselves don’t kill you directly, but you die as a result of either the complications brought on by the virus or third party infections as a result of a weakened immune system caused by the virus.

The morbidity of many Covid19 patents is also bad, very bad. Although they may not have died, they can have life long complications and never fully recover to back like they were before they got Covid19.

You've always got to question the facts too Mike, if they hold up they were probably true facts, if they don't then they weren't facts

I get your example but what caused the death in that example would at least be questionable. The person that dies in a motor vehicle accident a fortnight after a positive test is a "covid" death. Just an example but shows again they are highly questionable

I don't trust a thing I hear on the TV or anywhere, be it Murdoch or the ABC, agendas are everywhere and in many cases we don't know what they are. And we should question this too

 

[earl]

It isn’t crazy to question all this

That post you just wrote is crazy. It's simply nuts. You are a conspiracy theorist and it's so easy to disprove what you are stating.

Go and look at the hospitals being overwhelmed in Britain. I hope you get this. Britain isn't some backwards country.

I really suggest you educate yourself. Masks work via data. Lockdowns work via data. The statistics aren't being made up.

 

[earl]

I get your example but what caused the death in that example would at least be questionable. The person that dies in a motor vehicle accident a fortnight after a positive test is a “covid” death. Just an example but shows again they are highly questionable
I don’t trust a thing I hear on the TV or anywhere, be it Murdoch or the ABC, agendas are everywhere and in many cases we don’t know what they are. And we should question this too

This is a conspiracy theory. Here is the thing you have a crazy belief and you go and look for any data to confirm your believe. Go and find data that doesn't confirm your belief. Seriously try that approach.

 

[earl]

I would recommend watching this, he makes some very interesting points. I would be interested in the balanced views of the group

https://rumble.com/vcesav-brave-reporter-goes-off-script-on-air.html

I wouldn’t recommend watching this to anyone. The false balance fallacy.

I watched the start of it and I get his argument. It's crazy stuff. He is stating because all cause mortality hasn't decreased COVID has no impact.

The figure is probably a lot higher than the statistics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qb5uIdR5z4

I'll add that this is in reality a pretty mild disease compared to previous pandemics. It's still had an horrific impact.

 

[mike]

It isn’t crazy to question all this

We are being forced to wear masks, social distance, no contact, endure lock downs, travel restrictions, limits on gatherings, check in at all times wherever you are, police each other’s compliance, etc

And now the push for vaccination is gathering pace. Not mandatory but in practice it will endeavour to be so with various mechanisms being employed by government but also by corporate juggernauts who are flourishing through this nonsense

And the approach is very similar all across the world, almost co-ordinated

All for something that in Australia has 28,700 people having tested positive using a PCR test even the WHO acknowledges as producing a very high level of false positives (which the video discusses). ‬ ‪Of those just over 900 have died most of whom were elderly or had serious health issues‬ ‪

It’s not about fake deaths, it’s about questionable statistics. It’s about dying “with” covid not “of” covid. Get a positive test, die of anything in the following (varies) 28 dyas and it’s a covid death irrespective of what you actually die of. And all the field hospitals, mass graves and overflowing hospitals are what is being told to you by the media and you believe it as gospel, because they would never lie to you

Yet if you question it the labels come out. Conspiracy theorist, Flat earther, and the favourite, a Denier

I question it all

It’s ok to question, it’s not OK to deny the facts. It is about him calling the deaths normal and nothing out of the ordinary. The facts don’t bear this out.

If I have diabetes and catch Covid19 and I get sick enough that I have to be admitted to hospital. During hospitalisation I and the staff are unable to control my blood sugar levels. I go into a coma as a result of uncontrollable high blood sugar levels I die. Did I die because of diabetes or did I die because I caught Covid19? The answer is I died because I caught Covid19.

Generally viruses themselves don’t kill you directly, but you die as a result of either the complications brought on by the virus or third party infections as a result of a weakened immune system caused by the virus.

The morbidity of many Covid19 patents is also bad, very bad. Although they may not have died, they can have life long complications and never fully recover to back like they were before they got Covid19.

You've always got to question the facts too Mike, if they hold up they were probably true facts, if they don't then they weren't facts

I get your example but what caused the death in that example would at least be questionable. The person that dies in a motor vehicle accident a fortnight after a positive test is a "covid" death. Just an example but shows again they are highly questionable

I don't trust a thing I hear on the TV or anywhere, be it Murdoch or the ABC, agendas are everywhere and in many cases we don't know what they are. And we should question this too

I have relatives on the frontline in the US that are fighting a losing battle daily to save lives, risking their own lives to do so. I found Dr. Stephen Malthouse comments extremely offensive.

 

[Tim Sheens]

I still have concerns over the veracity of what we were told of Armstrong walking on the moon back when I was a young child, but have no doubt at all that a pandemic is ravaging communities around the globe as I write.

 

[mike]

I still have concerns over the veracity of what we were told of Armstrong walking on the moon back when I was a young child, but have no doubt at all that a pandemic is ravaging communities around the globe as I write.

You should check out the ‘Lunar Laser Ranging experiment’ using reflectors placed on the moon by Apollo 11, 14 & 15.

 

[TillLindemann]

It isn’t crazy to question all this

We are being forced to wear masks, social distance, no contact, endure lock downs, travel restrictions, limits on gatherings, check in at all times wherever you are, police each other’s compliance, etc

And now the push for vaccination is gathering pace. Not mandatory but in practice it will endeavour to be so with various mechanisms being employed by government but also by corporate juggernauts who are flourishing through this nonsense

And the approach is very similar all across the world, almost co-ordinated

All for something that in Australia has 28,700 people having tested positive using a PCR test even the WHO acknowledges as producing a very high level of false positives (which the video discusses). ‬ ‪Of those just over 900 have died most of whom were elderly or had serious health issues‬ ‪

It’s not about fake deaths, it’s about questionable statistics. It’s about dying “with” covid not “of” covid. Get a positive test, die of anything in the following (varies) 28 days and it’s a covid death irrespective of what you actually die of. And all the field hospitals, mass graves and overflowing hospitals are what is being told to you by the media and you believe it as gospel, because they would never lie to you

Yet if you question it the labels come out. Conspiracy theorist, Flat earther, and the favourite, a Denier

I question it all

the answer to why are we doing these measures when it's only killed 900, is if we didn't take these measures, it would be significantly more than 900. Through a combination of geography, management and luck, Australia and NZ have managed to keep pretty much on top of it. But pretty much every other region of the world is being ravaged. Yesterday alone, covid killed over 16,000 people globally.

 

[CocaCola]

I still have concerns over the veracity of what we were told of Armstrong walking on the moon back when I was a young child, but have no doubt at all that a pandemic is ravaging communities around the globe as I write.

You should check out the ‘Lunar Laser Ranging experiment’ using reflectors placed on the moon by Apollo 11, 14 & 15.

No man has ever set foot on the Moon.
Anime is more realistic than the apparent 'Moon landing' footage.

 

[TillLindemann]

I still have concerns over the veracity of what we were told of Armstrong walking on the moon back when I was a young child, but have no doubt at all that a pandemic is ravaging communities around the globe as I write.

You should check out the ‘Lunar Laser Ranging experiment’ using reflectors placed on the moon by Apollo 11, 14 & 15.

No man has ever set foot on the Moon.
Anime is more realistic than the apparent 'Moon landing' footage.

The Lunar Laser Ranging experiment @mike posted pretty effectively debunks this theory.

 

[mike]

I still have concerns over the veracity of what we were told of Armstrong walking on the moon back when I was a young child, but have no doubt at all that a pandemic is ravaging communities around the globe as I write.

You should check out the ‘Lunar Laser Ranging experiment’ using reflectors placed on the moon by Apollo 11, 14 & 15.

No man has ever set foot on the Moon.
Anime is more realistic than the apparent 'Moon landing' footage.

Sure buddy.

 

[jadtiger]

Looks like we are recycling all the old conspiracy theories.Who really shot JFK?

 

[Geo]

Looks like we are recycling all the old conspiracy theories.Who really shot JFK?

Sean Connery..may he R.I.P..

 

[sleeve]

I still have concerns over the veracity of what we were told of Armstrong walking on the moon back when I was a young child, but have no doubt at all that a pandemic is ravaging communities around the globe as I write.

You should check out the ‘Lunar Laser Ranging experiment’ using reflectors placed on the moon by Apollo 11, 14 & 15.

No man has ever set foot on the Moon.
Anime is more realistic than the apparent 'Moon landing' footage.

Sure buddy.

To much sugar in coca cola affects the brain cells.