Jacob Liddle #198

[Tiger5150]

The nrl app stats have Liddle with 8 missed tackles. Watching the game I must admit I didn’t notice that many from him, but if that’s the case then it’s a little concerning. For a comparison Tamou had 49 tackles with only 1 miss.

In real time didn’t notice but I watched the game a 2nd time and geez you could see some bad misses . He missed some really important tackles that led to the majority of mini breaks up the middle of the park and gave the Raiders momentum.

Look it’s an 80min game against a top 3 forward pack in the comp. He will be better for the run but if he is the front line defender he has no hope. I’m more concerned about him not being able to run out of dummy half. Thats his strength and we need it.

Well if you watched it again you would of noticed the forwards targeting him all game. You would of noticed the markers putting heavy pressure on him. You also would have noticed that he held his own in front on tackles.
You would of noticed that those breaks were made when our forwards and Liddle were retreating back to the line being involved in the previous tackle and having to come and square up again and receiving no assistance from the other defenders in the side.

Thats called Rugba leeg.

I cant imagine that Liddle and the pack will ever strike these circumstances again......until Sunday.

Seriously, if everything you listed above is a reason for Liddles performance, then he is not an 80min hooker and maybe not a first grade hooker at all.

What do you mean a reason for his performance. I wasn’t making excuses for his performance. I was just pointing out the subtle’s in the way we play as per the raiders play. I feel there were a lot of lessons that he and the team will learn from. I was simply saying i didn’t have a problem with his performance in that game.


Ok, let me put this another way.

If Jacob Liddle, or Michael Maguire were unaware of such "subtle" lessons as:

* The opposition forwards are going to run at the hooker,

* The markers are going to pressure the dummy half,

* Its harder to defend laterally or

* a charging attack will try to hit you as you retreat.....

Then Liddle, J and Maguire, M have no right to be at Campbelltown on Sunday.

Yeah your not getting it.
Based on your outcome the whole team might as well pack it up because they’re just not good enough to learn in game strategies from playing the game of rugby league.
Let them coach all they like on the sidelines running drill after drill without pressure whilst being able to predict the usual defender (2nd tier squad players).
They might as well forfeit all there games until they get through a season of ‘in game simulated’ sessions. Maybe then they’ll be ready for 2022.
Of course the other option is maybe they grow whilst playing each game and learning to adjust and pick up on how players and teams do things and even how their own players like to approach instances in a game’
But I guess the third option is they are just not good enough and should all be replaced including the coach.
If you think Liddle should already have the knowledge and game understanding of Josh Hodgson well that’s a high bar mate.

I think the point he's making is that 'Liddle was targeted by Canberra' is no excuse because there's no way in hell they didn't see that coming.... he doesn't think that Madge and Liddle actually shouldn't be at the game. That's my takeaway anyway.

If Liddle can't adjust the rookie will get a go I'm sure. That's the benefit of depth in the squad

Thank God

 

[Tiger5150]

The nrl app stats have Liddle with 8 missed tackles. Watching the game I must admit I didn’t notice that many from him, but if that’s the case then it’s a little concerning. For a comparison Tamou had 49 tackles with only 1 miss.

In real time didn’t notice but I watched the game a 2nd time and geez you could see some bad misses . He missed some really important tackles that led to the majority of mini breaks up the middle of the park and gave the Raiders momentum.

Look it’s an 80min game against a top 3 forward pack in the comp. He will be better for the run but if he is the front line defender he has no hope. I’m more concerned about him not being able to run out of dummy half. Thats his strength and we need it.

Well if you watched it again you would of noticed the forwards targeting him all game. You would of noticed the markers putting heavy pressure on him. You also would have noticed that he held his own in front on tackles.
You would of noticed that those breaks were made when our forwards and Liddle were retreating back to the line being involved in the previous tackle and having to come and square up again and receiving no assistance from the other defenders in the side.

Thats called Rugba leeg.

I cant imagine that Liddle and the pack will ever strike these circumstances again......until Sunday.

Seriously, if everything you listed above is a reason for Liddles performance, then he is not an 80min hooker and maybe not a first grade hooker at all.

What do you mean a reason for his performance. I wasn’t making excuses for his performance. I was just pointing out the subtle’s in the way we play as per the raiders play. I feel there were a lot of lessons that he and the team will learn from. I was simply saying i didn’t have a problem with his performance in that game.


Ok, let me put this another way.

If Jacob Liddle, or Michael Maguire were unaware of such "subtle" lessons as:

* The opposition forwards are going to run at the hooker,

* The markers are going to pressure the dummy half,

* Its harder to defend laterally or

* a charging attack will try to hit you as you retreat.....

Then Liddle, J and Maguire, M have no right to be at Campbelltown on Sunday.

Yeah your not getting it.
Based on your outcome the whole team might as well pack it up because they’re just not good enough to learn in game strategies from playing the game of rugby league.
Let them coach all they like on the sidelines running drill after drill without pressure whilst being able to predict the usual defender (2nd tier squad players).
They might as well forfeit all there games until they get through a season of ‘in game simulated’ sessions. Maybe then they’ll be ready for 2022.
Of course the other option is maybe they grow whilst playing each game and learning to adjust and pick up on how players and teams do things and even how their own players like to approach instances in a game’
But I guess the third option is they are just not good enough and should all be replaced including the coach.
If you think Liddle should already have the knowledge and game understanding of Josh Hodgson well that’s a high bar mate.

You’re making sense don’t worry mate.

It’s like planning ahead for Cameron Munster when you play Melbourne storm, of course every team has him as the #1 on the tip sheet, and a plan to shut him down...but its not always gonna be gravy

Liddle would have known they were gonna run at him all day from start to finish. But until he experiences it week in week out, he’ll never improve. How many first grade games has he strung together in a row ? 3-4 maybe. and they were all off the bench

Absolutely. And my main concern is everyone wants Jake Simpkin to get this lesson also whilst having to lead an inexperienced first grade side around at the age of 19. Both will take time.

So let me get this straight......Jake Simpkin needs to fail in first grade to understand that....


* forwards will run at him?

* Markers will pressure him

* Attackers will run at him as he retreats?

He has never learned that "subtle" lesson in Junior reps, Junior SoO, U/14's?

 

[Tiger5150]

Let me double down on my recent comments.....

If Madge has to teach critical players like Liddle lessons on how to play the game that they should have learned in U/14's, we are stuffed.

It should be polish at this stage and if not, get out of the way.

 

[Speed2burn]

Let me double down on my recent comments.....

If Madge has to teach critical players like Liddle lessons on how to play the game that they should have learned in U/14's, we are stuffed.

It should be polish at this stage and if not, get out of the way.

I think you’re over exaggerating a bit. All I gathered on what @Needaname was saying was that Liddle needs more than 1 game to prove himself. And like what’s been repeated several times in this thread, just playing 80 mins is a monumental achievement for him based on what he’s gone through

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him

 

[Speed2burn]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him

Well that says a lot about his character if he does that

For reference, Grant didn’t make his debut until he was 22?

Played a full year in reggies

Simpkin is only 19. A baby

 

[Tiger5150]

Let me double down on my recent comments.....

If Madge has to teach critical players like Liddle lessons on how to play the game that they should have learned in U/14's, we are stuffed.

It should be polish at this stage and if not, get out of the way.

I think you’re over exaggerating a bit. All I gathered on what @Needaname was saying was that Liddle needs more than 1 game to prove himself. And like what’s been repeated several times in this thread, just playing 80 mins is a monumental achievement for him

If that was what Needagame said, I would not have responded at all. Im not buying or selling Liddle stock. I have had the opinion for as long he has been here that he is talented and potentially a great first grade hooker, but he has had many serious injuries, the latest of which he is just returning from and so therefore the jury is out and as much as I would have loved Jacob to have had a great game last week and answered that question, he didnt. I havent seen anything in Simpkin yet that shows he is better so for me the jury is out. I agree it was an achievement to have completed 80 last week, but at what performance level? It wasnt high.

Needagame didnt merely say that Liddle needs more than one game, he said he would learn from the "subtle" lessons he learned on Sundya being, the forwards will target you, the markers will target you and and advancing attack will target a retreating defence.

Jacob Liddle has played 45 games of NRL.

 

[Tiger5150]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him

IMO the ball is in Liddles court. He has been named as the sole hooker again this week which has shown Madges hand. He can not repeat the performance of last week for long and retain his spot.

 

[JC99]

Let me double down on my recent comments.....

If Madge has to teach critical players like Liddle lessons on how to play the game that they should have learned in U/14's, we are stuffed.

It should be polish at this stage and if not, get out of the way.

I think you’re over exaggerating a bit. All I gathered on what @Needaname was saying was that Liddle needs more than 1 game to prove himself. And like what’s been repeated several times in this thread, just playing 80 mins is a monumental achievement for him based on what he’s gone through

I don't see him being dropped for a while. He'll be starting 9 for at least another 5-6 games probably unless he somehow has heaps of shockers in a row. There was definitely positives in his game on Sunday, just needs to do it more.

Run the ball Jacob is what I would be telling him if I'm Madge. Either that or pass off the ground every time - can't be these in between passes he's doing

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him

Well that says a lot about his character if he does that

For reference, Grant didn’t make his debut until he was 22?

Played a full year in reggies

Simpkin is only 19. A baby

old enough good enough, Grant couldn't get a run due to C Smith and B Smith

 

[avocadoontoast]

Let me double down on my recent comments.....

If Madge has to teach critical players like Liddle lessons on how to play the game that they should have learned in U/14's, we are stuffed.

It should be polish at this stage and if not, get out of the way.

I think you’re over exaggerating a bit. All I gathered on what @Needaname was saying was that Liddle needs more than 1 game to prove himself. And like what’s been repeated several times in this thread, just playing 80 mins is a monumental achievement for him based on what he’s gone through

I don't see him being dropped for a while. He'll be starting 9 for at least another 5-6 games probably unless he somehow has heaps of shockers in a row. There was definitely positives in his game on Sunday

I’m not sure we have the luxury to give all our poor performers 5-6 weeks to get their act together.

 

[sleeve]

Easts playing an 18 yr old half, we won't start a 19yr old hooker. ? We need the agression Simken wiil bring.

 

[hobbo1]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him


IMO the ball is in Liddles court. He has been named as the sole hooker again this week which has shown Madges hand. He can not repeat the performance of last week for long and retain his spot.

Six weeks then see

 

[Tiger5150]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him


IMO the ball is in Liddles court. He has been named as the sole hooker again this week which has shown Madges hand. He can not repeat the performance of last week for long and retain his spot.

Six weeks then see

For such a critical position, I think six weeks is too long, but probably based on our draw....maybe.

 

[Speed2burn]

Let me double down on my recent comments.....

If Madge has to teach critical players like Liddle lessons on how to play the game that they should have learned in U/14's, we are stuffed.

It should be polish at this stage and if not, get out of the way.

I think you’re over exaggerating a bit. All I gathered on what @Needaname was saying was that Liddle needs more than 1 game to prove himself. And like what’s been repeated several times in this thread, just playing 80 mins is a monumental achievement for him


If that was what Needagame said, I would not have responded at all. Im not buying or selling Liddle stock. I have had the opinion for as long he has been here that he is talented and potentially a great first grade hooker, but he has had many serious injuries, the latest of which he is just returning from and so therefore the jury is out and as much as I would have loved Jacob to have had a great game last week and answered that question, he didnt. I havent seen anything in Simpkin yet that shows he is better so for me the jury is out. I agree it was an achievement to have completed 80 last week, but at what performance level? It wasnt high.

Needagame didnt merely say that Liddle needs more than one game, he said he would learn from the "subtle" lessons he learned on Sundya being, the forwards will target you, the markers will target you and and advancing attack will target a retreating defence.

Jacob Liddle has played 45 games of NRL.

He may not have said that, and i'm no mind reader but I believe he was alluding to he has finally learned the ropes of what it takes to play 80 mins of 1st grade rugby league in the most physically demanding position on the field.

Yes, 45 1st grade games, majority being 20-40 minute cameos off the bench

 

[hobbo1]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him


IMO the ball is in Liddles court. He has been named as the sole hooker again this week which has shown Madges hand. He can not repeat the performance of last week for long and retain his spot.

Six weeks then see


For such a critical position, I think six weeks is too long, but probably based on our draw....maybe.

Round 1 inclusive ?

 

[Speed2burn]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him

Well that says a lot about his character if he does that

For reference, Grant didn’t make his debut until he was 22?

Played a full year in reggies

Simpkin is only 19. A baby

old enough good enough, Grant couldn't get a run due to C Smith and B Smith

Yes but you mentioned if Simpkin keeps killing it in reggies he'll beg for a release, Grant did not do that despite knowing he'd be behind both Smith's

FTR I think either way Simpkin will play plenty of grade this year even if it is off the bench

 

[Tiger5150]

Let me double down on my recent comments.....

If Madge has to teach critical players like Liddle lessons on how to play the game that they should have learned in U/14's, we are stuffed.

It should be polish at this stage and if not, get out of the way.

I think you’re over exaggerating a bit. All I gathered on what @Needaname was saying was that Liddle needs more than 1 game to prove himself. And like what’s been repeated several times in this thread, just playing 80 mins is a monumental achievement for him


If that was what Needagame said, I would not have responded at all. Im not buying or selling Liddle stock. I have had the opinion for as long he has been here that he is talented and potentially a great first grade hooker, but he has had many serious injuries, the latest of which he is just returning from and so therefore the jury is out and as much as I would have loved Jacob to have had a great game last week and answered that question, he didnt. I havent seen anything in Simpkin yet that shows he is better so for me the jury is out. I agree it was an achievement to have completed 80 last week, but at what performance level? It wasnt high.

Needagame didnt merely say that Liddle needs more than one game, he said he would learn from the "subtle" lessons he learned on Sundya being, the forwards will target you, the markers will target you and and advancing attack will target a retreating defence.

Jacob Liddle has played 45 games of NRL.

He may not have said that, and i'm no mind reader but I believe he was alluding to he has finally learned the ropes of what it takes to play 80 mins of 1st grade rugby league in the most physically demanding position on the field.

Yes, 45 1st grade games, majority being 20-40 minute cameos off the bench

Disagree, he was very specific about what he said......but anyway....He didnt perform to the required standard on Sunday, I hope he does in quick time. And if Needaname was right, I hope Jacob pays more attention in the next 4-6 weeks than he has in the last 10 years.

 

[Tiger5150]

If Simpkin keeps playing well in Reggie's his time on the bench will come or somewhere club will offer him a gig and he will whinge and we will release him

Well that says a lot about his character if he does that

For reference, Grant didn’t make his debut until he was 22?

Played a full year in reggies

Simpkin is only 19. A baby

old enough good enough, Grant couldn't get a run due to C Smith and B Smith

Defending in the middle is a massive task. Its a big change from Madges current tactic of Liddle for 80mins to throwing a 19yo into the middle to defend.

 

[Tim Sheens]

The nrl app stats have Liddle with 8 missed tackles. Watching the game I must admit I didn’t notice that many from him, but if that’s the case then it’s a little concerning. For a comparison Tamou had 49 tackles with only 1 miss.

In real time didn’t notice but I watched the game a 2nd time and geez you could see some bad misses . He missed some really important tackles that led to the majority of mini breaks up the middle of the park and gave the Raiders momentum.

Look it’s an 80min game against a top 3 forward pack in the comp. He will be better for the run but if he is the front line defender he has no hope. I’m more concerned about him not being able to run out of dummy half. Thats his strength and we need it.

Well if you watched it again you would of noticed the forwards targeting him all game. You would of noticed the markers putting heavy pressure on him. You also would have noticed that he held his own in front on tackles.
You would of noticed that those breaks were made when our forwards and Liddle were retreating back to the line being involved in the previous tackle and having to come and square up again and receiving no assistance from the other defenders in the side.

Thats called Rugba leeg.

I cant imagine that Liddle and the pack will ever strike these circumstances again......until Sunday.

Seriously, if everything you listed above is a reason for Liddles performance, then he is not an 80min hooker and maybe not a first grade hooker at all.

What do you mean a reason for his performance. I wasn’t making excuses for his performance. I was just pointing out the subtle’s in the way we play as per the raiders play. I feel there were a lot of lessons that he and the team will learn from. I was simply saying i didn’t have a problem with his performance in that game.


Ok, let me put this another way.

If Jacob Liddle, or Michael Maguire were unaware of such "subtle" lessons as:

* The opposition forwards are going to run at the hooker,

* The markers are going to pressure the dummy half,

* Its harder to defend laterally or

* a charging attack will try to hit you as you retreat.....

Then Liddle, J and Maguire, M have no right to be at Campbelltown on Sunday.

And if nothing is going to change between the matches, then your ultimate paragraph stands. I haven't watched a replay, but wrote then of Ricky having prior the kickoff already having a coaching win over Maguire on Sunday afternoon, with his gameplan, particularly around our ruck acted out from the first possession.

One coach had the same player you also like for his speed and direction of pass from the ground no longer doing that and it had continued on from the trial against Manly to play directly into Stuart's hands. Simpkin had adjusted his game similarly in that match and though that style worked against Manly, Ricky and his staff noted the difference and dedicated their defence to it all eighty, yet we persisted.

Pretty well everyone watching the Raiders game noticed Liddle was basically not passing from behind the play the ball, let alone his forte from the ground. If Maguire wants a nine whose natural game is stepping out first and foremost, fine, put that player there, but don't take away another's strong points from their game to manufacture the player wanted.

I expect that the coach will have made some changes at training this week.