Pascoe sanctioned by the NRL

[happy_tiger]

Doesn't a contract need to be signed by both parties to be valid?

It is still cheating if you give someone a contract signed by the club with them having the option of signing it at the completion of their career. That's just an effort to purposefully breach the rules.

How sure are you of this statement? Do you have a Law degree?

Plenty of lawyers on here! Lots of episodes of Law and Order have been thoroughly researched.

Nah Mate , The Good Wife , Julianna Margulies thank you :wink:

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Doesn't a contract need to be signed by both parties to be valid?

It is still cheating if you give someone a contract signed by the club with them having the option of signing it at the completion of their career. That's just an effort to purposefully breach the rules.

How sure are you of this statement? Do you have a Law degree?

Plenty of lawyers on here! Lots of episodes of Law and Order have been thoroughly researched.

Even more tin foil hats.

 

[WT2K]

Whether or not this contract for a post-NRL job is signed or not, is not the issue.

The accusations are that this role was to compensate Robbie for TPAs that he did not receive. If so, they argue that is cheating. If not, it is just NRL whingeing about not being informed officially (even though they already knew about it),

To me, NRL must believe they can prove that the job was offered to compensate for those cancelled TPAs, otherwise they wouldn't have proceeded. And that is the evidence I am looking forward to seeing. Anything less, and I think it proves their own bias.

If this is true (which I don't believe ) we are a pack of fools

Amateur hour if that's the case

 

[Lauren]

I’ve seen it suggested on the forum a few times, that the problem is that it’s basically about unpaid TPAs. Therefore I have a honest question for anyone that has been following this closely. Has Todd Greenberg (or anyone else from the NRL) actually implied this?
Greenberg stated that, he feels Justin Pascoe’s offering RF a post-career job whilst attempting cap relief for the club - looks highly misleading i.e. contradictory. But this doesn’t exactly suggest anything about TPAs.
I’ve yet to actually hear anything about it elsewhere is my point.

Also, hasn’t Robbie come out and said that he was paid outright by the club?

Lauren a TPA doesn't come from the club , the player manager and player present it to the club as part of a package …...

The club may not owe Robbie a thing , the TPA he lost when he left however may ....... the TPA may have not applied when he left the WT's

Thanks happy. I know little about TPAs…except that the Roosters have invisible ones.

I can’t find it now, but I did see another post prior to TigerTiger’s which was basically the same
That the fact that RF lost out on third party payments and the club offering him a role was in lieu of that. This can be used by the NRL as grounds for deception and attempting to rort the cap. Or something like that.
This actually concerns me more.

However, if it’s as straightforward as the facts presented in the media. That the issue really is JP’s failure to declare RF’s post-career job. I honestly still don’t see why it’s such a big issue. This seems more like a misdemeanour.
I don’t need the NRL to tell me whether Pascoe is guilty. We already know of his mistake, of how he failed to comply with a certain rule.
If this is the ONLY issue I am more concerned about the penalties. Breaches in the workplace are often categorised to reflect the level of seriousness, and I hope it’s something the NRL will use.

 

[Tiger_Steve]

I’m sure the TPA process is rorted - clubs organising as opposed to being organised independent of clubs. But by far the biggest problem I believe is under the table payments. I think this is a bigger problem that TPA rorting and cannot easily be investigated or uncovered.

 

[happy_tiger]

I’ve seen it suggested on the forum a few times, that the problem is that it’s basically about unpaid TPAs. Therefore I have a honest question for anyone that has been following this closely. Has Todd Greenberg (or anyone else from the NRL) actually implied this?
Greenberg stated that, he feels Justin Pascoe’s offering RF a post-career job whilst attempting cap relief for the club - looks highly misleading i.e. contradictory. But this doesn’t exactly suggest anything about TPAs.
I’ve yet to actually hear anything about it elsewhere is my point.

Also, hasn’t Robbie come out and said that he was paid outright by the club?

Lauren a TPA doesn't come from the club , the player manager and player present it to the club as part of a package …...

The club may not owe Robbie a thing , the TPA he lost when he left however may ....... the TPA may have not applied when he left the WT's

Thanks happy. I know little about TPAs…except that the Roosters have invisible ones.

I can’t find it now, but I did see another post prior to TigerTiger’s which was basically the same
That the fact that RF lost out on third party payments and the club offering him a role was in lieu of that. This can be used by the NRL as grounds for deception and attempting to rort the cap. Or something like that.
This actually concerns me more.

However, if it’s as straightforward as the facts presented in the media. That the issue really is JP’s failure to declare RF’s post-career job. I honestly still don’t see why it’s such a big issue. This seems more like a misdemeanour.
I don’t need the NRL to tell me whether Pascoe is guilty. We already know of his mistake, of how he failed to comply with a certain rule.
If this is the ONLY issue I am more concerned about the penalties. Breaches in the workplace are often categorised to reflect the level of seriousness, and I hope it’s something the NRL will use.

The other ridiculous thing Lauren is this

TPA's quite regularly fall through , and the club has no onus to honour it at all

Braith Anasta's TPA he had with us fell through and he had a dummy spit about it you may remember

 

[cochise]

What i don't understand is why Farah hasn't signed the mythical contract as he has stated. Surely if he was foregoing money in say 2016 on the promise he would get it back at a later date and here is a contract stating that we will do that - why hasn't he signed to make sure that he gets this money. If such a contract exists and is only signed by WT then they can legally withdraw that contract on the grounds that Farah has had long enough to sign and hasn't done so. In which case Farah loses the money he supposedly didn't get paid when he left. Now i know Robbie probably isn't the smartest financial wizard on earth, but to not sign a contract that guarantees you money you supposedly didn't get when leaving is a bit of a stretch - even for Farah.

For the exact reason you all state, so they can deny the existence of the role.

So how does Robbie guarantee that he gets his money if he doesn't sign the contract. You reckon Pascoe is a cheat so whats stopping him or WT from withdrawing the contract before Farah signs leaving him with nothing.

How do these players who apparently receive brown paper bag payments guarantee they will be paid?

 

[cochise]

I’ve seen it suggested on the forum a few times, that the problem is that it’s basically about unpaid TPAs. Therefore I have a honest question for anyone that has been following this closely. Has Todd Greenberg (or anyone else from the NRL) actually implied this?
Greenberg stated that, he feels Justin Pascoe’s offering RF a post-career job whilst attempting cap relief for the club - looks highly misleading i.e. contradictory. But this doesn’t exactly suggest anything about TPAs.
I’ve yet to actually hear anything about it elsewhere is my point.

Also, hasn’t Robbie come out and said that he was paid outright by the club?

Lauren a TPA doesn't come from the club , the player manager and player present it to the club as part of a package …...

The club may not owe Robbie a thing , the TPA he lost when he left however may ....... the TPA may have not applied when he left the WT's

Thanks happy. I know little about TPAs…except that the Roosters have invisible ones.

I can’t find it now, but I did see another post prior to TigerTiger’s which was basically the same
That the fact that RF lost out on third party payments and the club offering him a role was in lieu of that. This can be used by the NRL as grounds for deception and attempting to rort the cap. Or something like that.
This actually concerns me more.

However, if it’s as straightforward as the facts presented in the media. That the issue really is JP’s failure to declare RF’s post-career job. I honestly still don’t see why it’s such a big issue. This seems more like a misdemeanour.
I don’t need the NRL to tell me whether Pascoe is guilty. We already know of his mistake, of how he failed to comply with a certain rule.
If this is the ONLY issue I am more concerned about the penalties. Breaches in the workplace are often categorised to reflect the level of seriousness, and I hope it’s something the NRL will use.

The other ridiculous thing Lauren is this

TPA's quite regularly fall through , and the club has no onus to honour it at all

Braith Anasta's TPA he had with us fell through and he had a dummy spit about it you may remember

No the club has no obligation to honour the TPA, but a players has no obligation to leave a club when he has a contract and would be unlikely to do so if it meant losing a $200k TPA.

 

[Tiger_Steve]

What i don't understand is why Farah hasn't signed the mythical contract as he has stated. Surely if he was foregoing money in say 2016 on the promise he would get it back at a later date and here is a contract stating that we will do that - why hasn't he signed to make sure that he gets this money. If such a contract exists and is only signed by WT then they can legally withdraw that contract on the grounds that Farah has had long enough to sign and hasn't done so. In which case Farah loses the money he supposedly didn't get paid when he left. Now i know Robbie probably isn't the smartest financial wizard on earth, but to not sign a contract that guarantees you money you supposedly didn't get when leaving is a bit of a stretch - even for Farah.

For the exact reason you all state, so they can deny the existence of the role.

So how does Robbie guarantee that he gets his money if he doesn't sign the contract. You reckon Pascoe is a cheat so whats stopping him or WT from withdrawing the contract before Farah signs leaving him with nothing.

How do these players who apparently receive brown paper bag payments guarantee they will be paid?

Paid upfront??

 

[Geo]

I’ve seen it suggested on the forum a few times, that the problem is that it’s basically about unpaid TPAs. Therefore I have a honest question for anyone that has been following this closely. Has Todd Greenberg (or anyone else from the NRL) actually implied this?
Greenberg stated that, he feels Justin Pascoe’s offering RF a post-career job whilst attempting cap relief for the club - looks highly misleading i.e. contradictory. But this doesn’t exactly suggest anything about TPAs.
I’ve yet to actually hear anything about it elsewhere is my point.

Also, hasn’t Robbie come out and said that he was paid outright by the club?

Lauren a TPA doesn't come from the club , the player manager and player present it to the club as part of a package …...

The club may not owe Robbie a thing , the TPA he lost when he left however may ....... the TPA may have not applied when he left the WT's

There are 2 types of third party agreements Club Affiliated TPA's which can be guaranteed by the Club and paid for by a direct Club sponsor..an allowance but included in the Salary Cap and Non-affiliated TPA's which are between the 3rd party and player and are not guaranteed by the Club..these are exempt from the Salary Cap..

 

[cochise]

The NRL has said there is a contract, if it is signed by the Tigers then they are guilty.

Doesn't a contract need to be signed by both parties to be valid?

It is still cheating if you give someone a contract signed by the club with them having the option of signing it at the completion of their career. That's just an effort to purposefully breach the rules.

How sure are you of this statement? Do you have a Law degree?

I don't need a law degree, there is a difference between cheating and doing something illegal. If the Tigers gave Farah a contract with the intention of him signing it at a later date, that is cheating.

 

[cochise]

Whether or not this contract for a post-NRL job is signed or not, is not the issue.

The accusations are that this role was to compensate Robbie for TPAs that he did not receive. If so, they argue that is cheating. If not, it is just NRL whingeing about not being informed officially (even though they already knew about it),

To me, NRL must believe they can prove that the job was offered to compensate for those cancelled TPAs, otherwise they wouldn't have proceeded. And that is the evidence I am looking forward to seeing. Anything less, and I think it proves their own bias.

It is not about the NRL whinging about being told. They have rules that they must be informed to prevent clubs rorting the cap by offering players a post career job.

 

[cochise]

I’ve seen it suggested on the forum a few times, that the problem is that it’s basically about unpaid TPAs. Therefore I have a honest question for anyone that has been following this closely. Has Todd Greenberg (or anyone else from the NRL) actually implied this?
I only remember Greenberg stating that, he feels Justin Pascoe’s offering RF a post-career job whilst attempting cap relief for the club - looks to be highly misleading conduct from Pascoe i.e. contradictory. But this doesn’t exactly suggest anything about TPAs.

I’ve yet to actually hear anything about it elsewhere is my point.

Also, hasn’t Robbie come out and said that he was paid outright by the club?

He said the role was nothing to do with his playing contract which was paid in full.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

I’ve seen it suggested on the forum a few times, that the problem is that it’s basically about unpaid TPAs. Therefore I have a honest question for anyone that has been following this closely. Has Todd Greenberg (or anyone else from the NRL) actually implied this?
Greenberg stated that, he feels Justin Pascoe’s offering RF a post-career job whilst attempting cap relief for the club - looks highly misleading i.e. contradictory. But this doesn’t exactly suggest anything about TPAs.
I’ve yet to actually hear anything about it elsewhere is my point.

Also, hasn’t Robbie come out and said that he was paid outright by the club?

Lauren a TPA doesn't come from the club , the player manager and player present it to the club as part of a package …...

The club may not owe Robbie a thing , the TPA he lost when he left however may ....... the TPA may have not applied when he left the WT's

Thanks happy. I know little about TPAs…except that the Roosters have invisible ones.

I can’t find it now, but I did see another post prior to TigerTiger’s which was basically the same
That the fact that RF lost out on third party payments and the club offering him a role was in lieu of that. This can be used by the NRL as grounds for deception and attempting to rort the cap. Or something like that.
This actually concerns me more.

However, if it’s as straightforward as the facts presented in the media. That the issue really is JP’s failure to declare RF’s post-career job. I honestly still don’t see why it’s such a big issue. This seems more like a misdemeanour.
I don’t need the NRL to tell me whether Pascoe is guilty. We already know of his mistake, of how he failed to comply with a certain rule.
If this is the ONLY issue I am more concerned about the penalties. Breaches in the workplace are often categorised to reflect the level of seriousness, and I hope it’s something the NRL will use.

The other ridiculous thing Lauren is this

TPA's quite regularly fall through , and the club has no onus to honour it at all

**Braith Anasta's TPA he had with us fell through and he had a dummy spit about it you may remember**

What was that? The year's supply of Gatorade? :laughing:

 

[cochise]

It is still cheating if you give someone a contract signed by the club with them having the option of signing it at the completion of their career. That's just an effort to purposefully breach the rules.

Can't see that standing up in a court of law myself. Thinking about cheating is not cheating imo.

I will actually be more disappointed in the club if the contract is not signed by Farah as it shows a clear effort to purposefully deceive and cheat the cap. Drawing up and signing a contract, then giving that to the other party to sign at a later date, is not just thinking about cheating.

"Giving that contract to the other party to sign at a later date"…. IF they choose to do so. IF. Farah has supposedly said he hasnt signed it. The word "IF" would create a lot of doubt in a court of law.

Yes we may get off on a technicality in a court case, that doesn't mean the intention wasn't to cheat.

 

[Telltails]

Can't see that standing up in a court of law myself. Thinking about cheating is not cheating imo.

I will actually be more disappointed in the club if the contract is not signed by Farah as it shows a clear effort to purposefully deceive and cheat the cap. Drawing up and signing a contract, then giving that to the other party to sign at a later date, is not just thinking about cheating.

"Giving that contract to the other party to sign at a later date"…. IF they choose to do so. IF. Farah has supposedly said he hasnt signed it. The word "IF" would create a lot of doubt in a court of law.

Yes we may get off on a technicality in a court case, that doesn't mean the intention wasn't to cheat.

If the intention was to cheat what goose would put it out there in the media for all to be aware of?
When you are trying to cheat a system the norm would be to keep such matters behind closed doors with as few people knowing as possible - not make a public announcement about it.
He screwed up but I am yet to believe it was a deliberate attempt to cheat. By doing so you are suggesting that he put his job reputation and the club in jeopardy. He doesnt present as a man who would be so fool hardy to take on a position and risk it at the same time.

 

[Lauren]

The other ridiculous thing Lauren is this

TPA's quite regularly fall through , and the club has no onus to honour it at all

Braith Anasta's TPA he had with us fell through and he had a dummy spit about it you may remember

Up until this year, the guy really wouldn't stop letting on about the lack of Gatorade at the club. And now I understand what the holdup was with Maloney signing with Penrith.

There are 2 types of third party agreements Club Affiliated TPA's which can be guaranteed by the Club and paid for by a direct Club sponsor..an allowance but included in the Salary Cap and Non-affiliated TPA's which are between the 3rd party and player and are not guaranteed by the Club..these are exempt from the Salary Cap..

Aargh.
So the latter is what Roosters and Broncos would be riddled with?
This actually tells me why Player Manager's love their jobs so much. Cha ching….and that you can't really police it.

Also, hasn’t Robbie come out and said that he was paid outright by the club?

He said the role was nothing to do with his playing contract which was paid in full.

Okay thanks.

 

[cochise]

I will actually be more disappointed in the club if the contract is not signed by Farah as it shows a clear effort to purposefully deceive and cheat the cap. Drawing up and signing a contract, then giving that to the other party to sign at a later date, is not just thinking about cheating.

"Giving that contract to the other party to sign at a later date"…. IF they choose to do so. IF. Farah has supposedly said he hasnt signed it. The word "IF" would create a lot of doubt in a court of law.

Yes we may get off on a technicality in a court case, that doesn't mean the intention wasn't to cheat.

If the intention was to cheat what goose would put it out there in the media for all to be aware of?
When you are trying to cheat a system the norm would be to keep such matters behind closed doors with as few people knowing as possible - not make a public announcement about it.
He screwed up but I am yet to believe it was a deliberate attempt to cheat. By doing so you are suggesting that he put his job reputation and the club in jeopardy. He doesnt present as a man who would be so fool hardy to take on a position and risk it at the same time.

I hope that is the case.

 

[Guest]

Doesn't a contract need to be signed by both parties to be valid?

It is still cheating if you give someone a contract signed by the club with them having the option of signing it at the completion of their career. That's just an effort to purposefully breach the rules.

How sure are you of this statement? Do you have a Law degree?

I don't need a law degree, there is a difference between cheating and doing something illegal. If the Tigers gave Farah a contract with the intention of him signing it at a later date, that is cheating.

How important is proving intention in this instance? In certain criminal proceedings (certain serious offences) intention needs to be proved - is that the case in this type of matter because if so, I would suggest the NRL will have a hard time proving that.

 

[cochise]

It is still cheating if you give someone a contract signed by the club with them having the option of signing it at the completion of their career. That's just an effort to purposefully breach the rules.

How sure are you of this statement? Do you have a Law degree?

I don't need a law degree, there is a difference between cheating and doing something illegal. If the Tigers gave Farah a contract with the intention of him signing it at a later date, that is cheating.

How important is proving intention in this instance? In certain criminal proceedings (certain serious offences) intention needs to be proved - is that the case in this type of matter because if so, I would suggest the NRL will have a hard time proving that.

I don't think the NRL would need to prove intention at all, I think if you breach the rules they will consider you guilty.