Taylorball
- Thread starter Tim Sheens
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@innsaneink said:
Taylor knew our defence was crap and after the first two wins of the season he tried to install his way of thinking ( Taylor ball ) .
It didn't work , hence our continued losses and embarrassing results .
Since then he's loosed the reins and with the season closing to an end we as a playing group have improved .
Nothing's really changed , we've had an improvement in attack !
And so it should after 22 rounds .
Anyone can beat any team on their day (Storm win)
The win against the raiders was ugly and our defence is still crap !
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To me (and a lot of others) Taylorball mk1 was ultra conservative attacking football designed to complete sets and achieve a predictable outcome re: field position on changeover.
It took the footballers in our team out of the game and resulted in us being cellar dwellers. In theory if you complete your sets every time you should be in the game but the predictability of it meant opposition defences were not tested nor tired out resulting in opposition footballers still having a lot of gas in their tanks at the end of each half where points were piled on.
This mod styled football upset the play makers whose natural games were wasted. It meant Teddy rarely got to attack. It meant Brooks and Moses couldn't keep defensive lines in 2 minds. It also kept our defence on the back foot due to the attackers being relatively fresh. This resulted in us trying to slow down the ruck and giving away many penalties and therefore cheap field position. It also meant our play makers became frustrated and went for the "hero plays" during the last 10 minutes to try and score.
It was a failure.
It took the footballers in our team out of the game and resulted in us being cellar dwellers. In theory if you complete your sets every time you should be in the game but the predictability of it meant opposition defences were not tested nor tired out resulting in opposition footballers still having a lot of gas in their tanks at the end of each half where points were piled on.
This mod styled football upset the play makers whose natural games were wasted. It meant Teddy rarely got to attack. It meant Brooks and Moses couldn't keep defensive lines in 2 minds. It also kept our defence on the back foot due to the attackers being relatively fresh. This resulted in us trying to slow down the ruck and giving away many penalties and therefore cheap field position. It also meant our play makers became frustrated and went for the "hero plays" during the last 10 minutes to try and score.
It was a failure.
foreveratiger
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Oh right…...so all of a sudden Jason Taylor is Master Coach Wayne Bennett :laughing: .
The guy couldn't Coach a Reserve Grade side he has no idea , what has happened is earlier in the year he has tried to get our players to play structered Footy to players that simply don't suit that style of Footy....the Brooks , Moses , Tedesco , Farah (which quite frankly is our spine) they play what they see in front of them but he still persisted for 3/4 of the Season to play his way despite having players that don't suit his style of play.
It took him how long to come to the Conclusion that Lawrence was no longer a Centre ? despite the fans seeing this very clearly and since moving to the Backrow Lawrence has been a relevation and i would go as far to say that if he continues that form i would be more than happy to extend his Contract past 2016 at a reduced rate to what his going to be on next year.
He persisted to play Lovett in the Centres and never moved him when they were running rings around him.
He has been focusing on our Defence and you know what it's still crap , watch the Canberra game again look at the Raiders tries , what a joke .
The 1st Raiders Try from Shannon Boyd he was basically jogging from 5 metres out 4 men in the tackle with no desperation in defence and still finds the line .
2nd Try Shannon Boyd gets the ball from a Penalty tap 10 metres out , Ava gives him a shin slap attempt at tackling him and Cherrington and Tedesco were no hope after that .
3rd Try was an embarressement Wighton gets the ball in the in goal and runs 100 metres through a line of no defence and eventually Croker gets the Try .
So much for Defence
pen_mouth: .
You take Tedesco out of that side and we don't beat the Raiders full stop .
Jason Taylor can't Coach that individual brilliance that some of our players have , what he's realised is ? if his going to see out his 3 year Contract he needs to allow them to play what they see if not he will be gone by next year .
Taylor can't Coach never has and never will .
The guy couldn't Coach a Reserve Grade side he has no idea , what has happened is earlier in the year he has tried to get our players to play structered Footy to players that simply don't suit that style of Footy....the Brooks , Moses , Tedesco , Farah (which quite frankly is our spine) they play what they see in front of them but he still persisted for 3/4 of the Season to play his way despite having players that don't suit his style of play.
It took him how long to come to the Conclusion that Lawrence was no longer a Centre ? despite the fans seeing this very clearly and since moving to the Backrow Lawrence has been a relevation and i would go as far to say that if he continues that form i would be more than happy to extend his Contract past 2016 at a reduced rate to what his going to be on next year.
He persisted to play Lovett in the Centres and never moved him when they were running rings around him.
He has been focusing on our Defence and you know what it's still crap , watch the Canberra game again look at the Raiders tries , what a joke .
The 1st Raiders Try from Shannon Boyd he was basically jogging from 5 metres out 4 men in the tackle with no desperation in defence and still finds the line .
2nd Try Shannon Boyd gets the ball from a Penalty tap 10 metres out , Ava gives him a shin slap attempt at tackling him and Cherrington and Tedesco were no hope after that .
3rd Try was an embarressement Wighton gets the ball in the in goal and runs 100 metres through a line of no defence and eventually Croker gets the Try .
So much for Defence
pen_mouth: .You take Tedesco out of that side and we don't beat the Raiders full stop .
Jason Taylor can't Coach that individual brilliance that some of our players have , what he's realised is ? if his going to see out his 3 year Contract he needs to allow them to play what they see if not he will be gone by next year .
Taylor can't Coach never has and never will .
jirskyr
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@stryker said:
When exactly did this Taylorball Mk1 start and stop, in your opinion?
@foreveratiger said:Oh right…...so all of a sudden Jason Taylor is Master Coach Wayne Bennett :laughing: .
The guy couldn't Coach a Reserve Grade side he has no idea , what has happened is earlier in the year he has tried to get our players to play structered Footy to players that simply don't suit that style of Footy....the Brooks , Moses , Tedesco , Farah (which quite frankly is our spine) they play what they see in front of them but he still persisted for 3/4 of the Season to play his way despite having players that don't suit his style of play.
It took him how long to come to the Conclusion that Lawrence was no longer a Centre ? despite the fans seeing this very clearly and since moving to the Backrow Lawrence has been a relevation and i would go as far to say that if he continues that form i would be more than happy to extend his Contract past 2016 at a reduced rate to what his going to be on next year.
He persisted to play Lovett in the Centres and never moved him when they were running rings around him.
He has been focusing on our Defence and you know what it's still crap , watch the Canberra game again look at the Raiders tries , what a joke .
The 1st Raiders Try from Shannon Boyd he was basically jogging from 5 metres out 4 men in the tackle with no desperation in defence and still finds the line .
2nd Try Shannon Boyd gets the ball from a Penalty tap 10 metres out , Ava gives him a shin slap attempt at tackling him and Cherrington and Tedesco were no hope after that .
3rd Try was an embarressement Wighton gets the ball in the in goal and runs 100 metres through a line of no defence and eventually Croker gets the Try .
So much for Defence
You take Tedesco out of that side and we don't beat the Raiders full stop .
Jason Taylor can't Coach that individual brilliance that some of our players have , what he's realised is ? if his going to see out his 3 year Contract he needs to allow them to play what they see if not he will be gone by next year .
Taylor can't Coach never has and never will .
Great post !
Can't wait to hear from the Shandy boys ( Taylor fan club) on this one ….:laughing:
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jirskyr
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http://www.weststigersforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=628165#p628165
Start by listening to the interview in this other thread. Words from the horses mouth, not interpretation or speculation of fans. Call it spin or whatever you want, hearing comments from a known and identified source is easily as valuable as conjecture from mostly anonymous fans.
JT says quite clearly that they began with a plan at the start of the year based on their own coaching experiences and knowledge of what the team could do / had done in the past. He noted that many players hadn't played much FG footy, so they could not yet develop long-term plans for how these guys would perform.
Come the last bye round, JT says they made some strategic changes to the way the attack was structured, based on performance of the players so far. This occurred before the Broncos and Roosters floggings, which were basically our worst, but we've now had two good wins.
"Taylorball" is whatever footy we are playing right now. That is what it always is, all it can be. It is such a mistake to think that coaches don't continually work on their game plans based on injuries, conditions, opposition, turn-around. Taylorball evolves every week. You can't just say that the bad games are Taylorball and the good ones aren't, or that some how JT instigated "Taylorball" for a number of rounds, but the current gameplan is something else, perhaps not even associated with Taylor.
I don't understand why people think that the coach runs into every game with just one game plan all year and doesn't make changes to suit the specific match conditions. Or that he suddenly changes the game plan and PRESTO, the team starts winning well.
Taylor now has 7 wins, with 4 games to play, which is equal to Sheens and Potter in their first seasons at WT (Lamb managed 9, but that was a 26-game season). Ironically, JT currently has the best win percentage of all first-year Tigers coaches (35%) since Junior Pearce in 2000 (42.31%).
Start by listening to the interview in this other thread. Words from the horses mouth, not interpretation or speculation of fans. Call it spin or whatever you want, hearing comments from a known and identified source is easily as valuable as conjecture from mostly anonymous fans.
JT says quite clearly that they began with a plan at the start of the year based on their own coaching experiences and knowledge of what the team could do / had done in the past. He noted that many players hadn't played much FG footy, so they could not yet develop long-term plans for how these guys would perform.
Come the last bye round, JT says they made some strategic changes to the way the attack was structured, based on performance of the players so far. This occurred before the Broncos and Roosters floggings, which were basically our worst, but we've now had two good wins.
"Taylorball" is whatever footy we are playing right now. That is what it always is, all it can be. It is such a mistake to think that coaches don't continually work on their game plans based on injuries, conditions, opposition, turn-around. Taylorball evolves every week. You can't just say that the bad games are Taylorball and the good ones aren't, or that some how JT instigated "Taylorball" for a number of rounds, but the current gameplan is something else, perhaps not even associated with Taylor.
I don't understand why people think that the coach runs into every game with just one game plan all year and doesn't make changes to suit the specific match conditions. Or that he suddenly changes the game plan and PRESTO, the team starts winning well.
Taylor now has 7 wins, with 4 games to play, which is equal to Sheens and Potter in their first seasons at WT (Lamb managed 9, but that was a 26-game season). Ironically, JT currently has the best win percentage of all first-year Tigers coaches (35%) since Junior Pearce in 2000 (42.31%).
jirskyr
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@foreveratiger said:
Hold on, so the first coach to actually move Lawrence to the backrow since 2006, and you are criticising him because it took too long?
Potter never played him there!!! And Sheens did, what, three or four times in addition to 5/8.
It's a masterstroke apparently, just not a fast enough one?
JT moved Lawrence to 2nd row in Round 11\. He actually only started at centre for 8 games before he was moved (missed Rd 1 with injury, started one game off the bench).
It makes complete sense to start the season with Lawrence at centre. He'd played there last year, and we were short on replacement options - Nofo was injured, Naiqama was brand new, Hoeter and Milone had not played any FG games.
@jirskyr said:
Those last stats are interesting! And it must be said, that there are some players in this squad that really aren't up to first grade standard. I am not going to judge Taylor on this first season alone. He obviously has a longer term plan - I'll wait and see if it's a success.
foreveratiger
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@jirskyr said:
I actually posted last year when Potter was Coaching , why hasn't he moved Lawrence to the backrow.
Even if you were to have an inexperienced Centre in 1st Grade to start the year with no 1st Grade experience ? what does that matter . We had no illusions of anything at the start of the year , Moses has never played at 6 in 1st Grade before Round 1 even though he had 10-15 games in 1st Grade at Fullback last year.
Lawrence should of been moved away from the Centres after his injury , he has beeen a relevation in the backrow this year.
innsaneink
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You cannot go from the bottom to the top in one go.
Lots of ladder rungs in between.
It's like Brooks doesn't wake up one day and is suddenly a.fully fledged first grader….Each game is a bit more progress....even the Lockyers and Johns' etc were learning every day right up to the end.
Like a junior developing player....we are a junior developing team with a young developing coach.
Once I knew there was a method behind the apparent madness...The frustration subsided.
Lots of ladder rungs in between.
It's like Brooks doesn't wake up one day and is suddenly a.fully fledged first grader….Each game is a bit more progress....even the Lockyers and Johns' etc were learning every day right up to the end.
Like a junior developing player....we are a junior developing team with a young developing coach.
Once I knew there was a method behind the apparent madness...The frustration subsided.
happy_tiger
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@foreveratiger said:Oh right…...so all of a sudden Jason Taylor is Master Coach Wayne Bennett :laughing: .
The guy couldn't Coach a Reserve Grade side he has no idea , what has happened is earlier in the year he has tried to get our players to play structered Footy to players that simply don't suit that style of Footy....the Brooks , Moses , Tedesco , Farah (which quite frankly is our spine) they play what they see in front of them but he still persisted for 3/4 of the Season to play his way despite having players that don't suit his style of play.
It took him how long to come to the Conclusion that Lawrence was no longer a Centre ? despite the fans seeing this very clearly and since moving to the Backrow Lawrence has been a relevation and i would go as far to say that if he continues that form i would be more than happy to extend his Contract past 2016 at a reduced rate to what his going to be on next year.
He persisted to play Lovett in the Centres and never moved him when they were running rings around him.
He has been focusing on our Defence and you know what it's still crap , watch the Canberra game again look at the Raiders tries , what a joke .
The 1st Raiders Try from Shannon Boyd he was basically jogging from 5 metres out 4 men in the tackle with no desperation in defence and still finds the line .
2nd Try Shannon Boyd gets the ball from a Penalty tap 10 metres out , Ava gives him a shin slap attempt at tackling him and Cherrington and Tedesco were no hope after that .
3rd Try was an embarressement Wighton gets the ball in the in goal and runs 100 metres through a line of no defence and eventually Croker gets the Try .
So much for Defence
You take Tedesco out of that side and we don't beat the Raiders full stop .
Jason Taylor can't Coach that individual brilliance that some of our players have , what he's realised is ? if his going to see out his 3 year Contract he needs to allow them to play what they see if not he will be gone by next year .
Taylor can't Coach never has and never will .
So what in essence you are saying is when players miss tackles badly its the coaches fault , not the players fault
Well FT , good news , there are 16 crap coaches
Bellamy included ,Koroibete is garbage as a defender , blind people could read the game better defensively
You other point that we have a great spine and how talented
Well a great spine can't win unless the other 13 players around them are capable of defending the points they score
The same argument every time , some of us think attack is more important , some of us think defence is more important
And that's why very few will agree
But it still comes back to this , you may have a side that can score 40 points every week , but if they can't defend it , it is a waste of time and won't matter how many points they score
As I've said this whole time everyone was concerned about our attack , but you could see that we always had the points in us , we had to learn to defend those points and defend those leads while still in attack
innsaneink
Well-known member
Some people cant see the difference between tackling, and defense
@jirskyr said:
The players went to Taylor a few weeks ago and asked for changes to the style of footy they were playing. This has been widely reported and even Brooks and Moses spoke about it in a recent interview.
Taylor to his credit has adapted his game plan from one which was not working. He is now using the talent he has at his disposal. For that he deserves credit, but also some blame for playing mind numbingly boring and un threatening football for half the season. The games against the Cows, Titans and Newcastle were really winnnable and I think we went in with the wrong mindset.
happy_tiger
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@hobbo2803 said:
So don't worry about any defensive structure Hobbo ??
foreveratiger
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@happy tiger said:@foreveratiger said:Oh right…...so all of a sudden Jason Taylor is Master Coach Wayne Bennett :laughing: .
The guy couldn't Coach a Reserve Grade side he has no idea , what has happened is earlier in the year he has tried to get our players to play structered Footy to players that simply don't suit that style of Footy....the Brooks , Moses , Tedesco , Farah (which quite frankly is our spine) they play what they see in front of them but he still persisted for 3/4 of the Season to play his way despite having players that don't suit his style of play.
It took him how long to come to the Conclusion that Lawrence was no longer a Centre ? despite the fans seeing this very clearly and since moving to the Backrow Lawrence has been a relevation and i would go as far to say that if he continues that form i would be more than happy to extend his Contract past 2016 at a reduced rate to what his going to be on next year.
He persisted to play Lovett in the Centres and never moved him when they were running rings around him.
He has been focusing on our Defence and you know what it's still crap , watch the Canberra game again look at the Raiders tries , what a joke .
The 1st Raiders Try from Shannon Boyd he was basically jogging from 5 metres out 4 men in the tackle with no desperation in defence and still finds the line .
2nd Try Shannon Boyd gets the ball from a Penalty tap 10 metres out , Ava gives him a shin slap attempt at tackling him and Cherrington and Tedesco were no hope after that .
3rd Try was an embarressement Wighton gets the ball in the in goal and runs 100 metres through a line of no defence and eventually Croker gets the Try .
So much for Defence
You take Tedesco out of that side and we don't beat the Raiders full stop .
Jason Taylor can't Coach that individual brilliance that some of our players have , what he's realised is ? if his going to see out his 3 year Contract he needs to allow them to play what they see if not he will be gone by next year .
Taylor can't Coach never has and never will .
So what in essence you are saying is when players miss tackles badly its the coaches fault , not the players fault
Well FT , good news , there are 16 crap coaches
Bellamy included ,Koroibete is garbage as a defender , blind people could read the game better defensively
You other point that we have a great spine and how talented
Well a great spine can't win unless the other 13 players around them are capable of defending the points they score
The same argument every time , some of us think attack is more important , some of us think defence is more important
And that's why very few will agree
But it still comes back to this , you may have a side that can score 40 points every week , but if they can't defend it , it is a waste of time and won't matter how many points they score
As I've said this whole time everyone was concerned about our attack , but you could see that we always had the points in us , we had to learn to defend those points and defend those leads while still in attack
:laughing: , didn't do that to well vs the Broncos a few weeks back ( defence) , you have got to be kidding if you think our Defence has improved ? seriously :unamused: .
We are able to play now that is the only difference , Teddy doesn't play the other night we lose and gee the Raiders played very poorly.
foreveratiger
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@happy tiger said:
There is no defensive structure anyway , if there was ? Wigton doesn't run 80 metres to set up Croker for a Try , no defensive line .
We win a couple of games and all of a Sudden Taylor is Bennett :roll .
Taylor realised what he was doing wasn't working so has allowed them some free rein .
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