happy_tiger
Well-known member
@foreveratiger said:
FT
Inks right
Defence and tackling is chalk and cheese
The best tackler in the team could be the worse in a defensive structure if he doesn't listen or can't read the game
Taylorball
- Thread starter Tim Sheens
- Start date
FT
Inks right
Defence and tackling is chalk and cheese
The best tackler in the team could be the worse in a defensive structure if he doesn't listen or can't read the game
foreveratiger
New member
@happy tiger said:
Stop beating around the Bush , i've played the game at a decent level and there both the same thing if a bloke knows how to defend and wrap up a ball carrier he can do both .
Read the game :laughing: , tackle the bloke with the ball it's not Nostradumus.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@foreveratiger said:
No there not
Best tackler in the side might make 45 tackles a game and not miss a single tackle
But if he continues tearing out of the line or picking the decoy to smash into oblivion it means nothing
That's the difference FT
If tackling the bloke with the ball is so easy , why do people struggle so much ?
Ask back rowers and centres if it is easy when you have to pick which guy will get the ball when you have 4-5 different options coming , all bigger and stronger than you
Because that's what Brooks ,Moses ,Naiqama ,Lovett,Simona etc face every play potentially
It also takes a while to learn /read what or how to read what options players are likely to take in certain situations
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@hobbo2803 said:
I have been in the past , but with everything going on this year and no set in stone dates it was always going to be hard
Whenever I'm at training I help give advice to the boys
Oh and the Mum's need a separate grandstand seriously
One wet stand one dry stand
Just shut up women :righton:
And by the way Hobbo and FT , I will need a couple of water boys when I'm coaching our boys in the NRL in the future
I'd ask Geo to help with the stats , but with his counting …..... 😱pen_mouth: Nah
It's Funny…. cause people are complicating things that are quite simple really....this Taylorball speak is just for the fans who want to label something...
It's rugby league ffs....most teams play the same structure as us just better...the players weren't asked to tackle kick run pass differently....It all starts with the forward pack...unless the pigs either dominate or at least hold there own against the opposition...the halves don't have much hope to create anything when we are constantly on the back foot.... The forwards have done this in every game we have won and failed to do in every game we have lost..it's not friggin rocket surgery..
The structures early in the season were put in place to try and lessen the impact of the times that things weren't going our way ....a fallback they could go to when put under pressure because of our lack of dominance or poor completions....to enable us to stay in games as they go for 80mins..
The last month of football has shown that it looked to me they played exactly the same as against the Rorters and Broncos..as they did against the Storm and Raiders..difference was against the Storm we completed at 80 odd % and scrambled much better in defence...against the Raiders again the completion rate was 82% and while the defence was broken and their tries were quite soft...they were able to fallback on what has been working in the last month....they scrambled and defended well for the most part only conceding 3 tries in those games at the same time completing sets and applying our own pressure to the opposition in attack...
I don't think anyone is saying Taylor is a Mastercoach ..at the same time those calling him a hack is just as extreme.....
It's rugby league ffs....most teams play the same structure as us just better...the players weren't asked to tackle kick run pass differently....It all starts with the forward pack...unless the pigs either dominate or at least hold there own against the opposition...the halves don't have much hope to create anything when we are constantly on the back foot.... The forwards have done this in every game we have won and failed to do in every game we have lost..it's not friggin rocket surgery..
The structures early in the season were put in place to try and lessen the impact of the times that things weren't going our way ....a fallback they could go to when put under pressure because of our lack of dominance or poor completions....to enable us to stay in games as they go for 80mins..
The last month of football has shown that it looked to me they played exactly the same as against the Rorters and Broncos..as they did against the Storm and Raiders..difference was against the Storm we completed at 80 odd % and scrambled much better in defence...against the Raiders again the completion rate was 82% and while the defence was broken and their tries were quite soft...they were able to fallback on what has been working in the last month....they scrambled and defended well for the most part only conceding 3 tries in those games at the same time completing sets and applying our own pressure to the opposition in attack...
I don't think anyone is saying Taylor is a Mastercoach ..at the same time those calling him a hack is just as extreme.....
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Yes and No Geo , if your 1-7 can't defend it doesn't matter how good your forwards are
Has helped that our 1-5 hasn't changed , helps keep the defence settled as well
We still have defensive issues , but as Geo said if we can complete our sets we give ourselves a chance at least in defence
And totally agree , Taylor still has a lot to prove to many whether he is a good coach or not , but we should be judging him on season 2 and 3 when his decisions will be proven as good or bad
Has helped that our 1-5 hasn't changed , helps keep the defence settled as well
We still have defensive issues , but as Geo said if we can complete our sets we give ourselves a chance at least in defence
And totally agree , Taylor still has a lot to prove to many whether he is a good coach or not , but we should be judging him on season 2 and 3 when his decisions will be proven as good or bad
happy_tiger
Well-known member
I think we just all need to agree to disagree and agree on this one fact
Happy is the only one among us who knows what the hell he is talking about
Happy is the only one among us who knows what the hell he is talking about
It's funny how the fan's perceptions have changed throughout the year.
TAYLOR FANS
- Wanted the defence fixed and were prepared to endure pain until structures were learned.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- Wanted the defence fixed and were prepared to endure pain until structures were learned.
^ This was at the start of the year when we were all still on the same page.
TAYLOR FANS
- We are not winning nor playing well but changes are happening…be patient
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- We are not winning nor playing well because JT has stifled our attack
- Our defence is still garbage. The low losing margins are more indicative of the weakened teams we're playing.
^ When Taylorball was in full swing peaking at Cowboys game.
TAYLOR FANS
- Wow what a game from us. Taupau was ferocious and the backs were very slick. Let that be a lessen to all you knockers as Taylor's structures are clearly working.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- Wow what a game from us. Taupau was ferocious and the backs were very slick. Opposition were weakened and played poorly however if this keeps up we may be eating our words...time will tell.
^ After we demolished the Rabbits.
TAYLOR FANS
- You guys need to be patient. We have a substandard roster and very few are 1st graders.
- The structures are working and we haven't been flogged 50-0.
- We just don't have the cattle to implement JT's plans to a tee.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- Just as we thought. The Rabbits game was false hope.
- Stop saying we defended well when we lost by 4 converted tries.
- This squad is talented enough to be winning games.
- Attitude is poor and attack is still stymied.
^ After we return to our losing ways
TAYLOR FANS
- You guys don't get it. This is a rebuilding year and due to cap restraints we are stuck with this poor squad.
- Taylor is the right coach and in 2 years when he gets the squad he wants you watch us go.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- You guys don't get it. Our squad isn't that bad. We have some very good players. Sure we need a couple of big signings soon but what we have should be playing better.
- We are underachieving.
^ When we became favorites for the spoon.
TAYLOR FANS
- The way we are playing validates JT's hard work re structure
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- The way we are playing just proves that Taylorball was the wrong move.
- Credit where credit is due, JT has evolved his game plans and loosened his structures. The players look full of enthusiasm now and free to play football.
^ We turn the corner after the bye.
Same set of events perceived very differently by two groups of supporters dissatisfied with season 2015\. Itll be interesting to see how we finish the year off and how we all conclude the year. I'd suspect the fans will triumphantly claim the platform has been laid through JT's structures and 2016 is looking bright whilst the doubters will claim that some hard lessens were learnt this year and as a result of acknowledging this, the platform is laid to begin competing next year.
As long as we all get to the same outcome all will be good.
TAYLOR FANS
- Wanted the defence fixed and were prepared to endure pain until structures were learned.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- Wanted the defence fixed and were prepared to endure pain until structures were learned.
^ This was at the start of the year when we were all still on the same page.
TAYLOR FANS
- We are not winning nor playing well but changes are happening…be patient
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- We are not winning nor playing well because JT has stifled our attack
- Our defence is still garbage. The low losing margins are more indicative of the weakened teams we're playing.
^ When Taylorball was in full swing peaking at Cowboys game.
TAYLOR FANS
- Wow what a game from us. Taupau was ferocious and the backs were very slick. Let that be a lessen to all you knockers as Taylor's structures are clearly working.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- Wow what a game from us. Taupau was ferocious and the backs were very slick. Opposition were weakened and played poorly however if this keeps up we may be eating our words...time will tell.
^ After we demolished the Rabbits.
TAYLOR FANS
- You guys need to be patient. We have a substandard roster and very few are 1st graders.
- The structures are working and we haven't been flogged 50-0.
- We just don't have the cattle to implement JT's plans to a tee.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- Just as we thought. The Rabbits game was false hope.
- Stop saying we defended well when we lost by 4 converted tries.
- This squad is talented enough to be winning games.
- Attitude is poor and attack is still stymied.
^ After we return to our losing ways
TAYLOR FANS
- You guys don't get it. This is a rebuilding year and due to cap restraints we are stuck with this poor squad.
- Taylor is the right coach and in 2 years when he gets the squad he wants you watch us go.
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- You guys don't get it. Our squad isn't that bad. We have some very good players. Sure we need a couple of big signings soon but what we have should be playing better.
- We are underachieving.
^ When we became favorites for the spoon.
TAYLOR FANS
- The way we are playing validates JT's hard work re structure
TAYLOR DOUBTERS
- The way we are playing just proves that Taylorball was the wrong move.
- Credit where credit is due, JT has evolved his game plans and loosened his structures. The players look full of enthusiasm now and free to play football.
^ We turn the corner after the bye.
Same set of events perceived very differently by two groups of supporters dissatisfied with season 2015\. Itll be interesting to see how we finish the year off and how we all conclude the year. I'd suspect the fans will triumphantly claim the platform has been laid through JT's structures and 2016 is looking bright whilst the doubters will claim that some hard lessens were learnt this year and as a result of acknowledging this, the platform is laid to begin competing next year.
As long as we all get to the same outcome all will be good.
I just don't see how anyone can label JT a success or a failure this early in to his tenure! He has a young inexperienced team with very few players being of genuine quality. He's been attempting to change the attitude within the club - particularly when it comes to defense. This is an attitude that has been 15 years in the making and will no doubt take more than 15 months to turn around. And he has a squad that he has inherited and can do very little about changing for a couple of years at least. So maybe his achievements thus far are not that bad. As was mentioned in another post, his first year results are better than both Sheens and Potter.
By the same time he has done some pig stupid things - like sticking with Lovett in the centres against the Titans when he had an accomplished centre like Lawrence still banging away in the back row. That was DUMB!
As I said, better to wait to make an opinion until it is clear one way or the other. But with the recent changes to the way the team is playing and the potential that appears to be there, I'm at least hopeful that he'll prove to be a good coach.
By the same time he has done some pig stupid things - like sticking with Lovett in the centres against the Titans when he had an accomplished centre like Lawrence still banging away in the back row. That was DUMB!
As I said, better to wait to make an opinion until it is clear one way or the other. But with the recent changes to the way the team is playing and the potential that appears to be there, I'm at least hopeful that he'll prove to be a good coach.
@happy tiger said:
I will see JT on saturday and I will be the first to shake his hand and thank him for his efforts to teach such a young and inexperienced side what NRL is all about,I can take the losses as long as the team and Taylor learn from them..
IF your a fair dinkum supporter you shouldnt judge JT until after his tenure…
Sheens was a legend after winning the premiership....but at least he was given a lot of chances...Potter would of been a great coach for this young team but wasnt given the chance....
It appears JT has been given a chance but its taken way to long for him to teach this squad something completely new to them,so lets get rid of him until we employ the next sucker to be crucified by the coaching experts behind a keyboard.. :unamused:
In JT's latest interview, he mentions that at the start of the season,he didn't know what each individual player could do. :question: That's why he and the coaching staff had them playing Tailorball (my words not his).
Recently some of the players asked him, if they could show him what they're capable of doing. And showed him they did :stuck_out_tongue: at training and in real games. Team and coach haven't looked back since. (Thank God)….Coach and players are learning from each other and just as important, about each other's capabilities. That's the way it seems to me anyway. :sign:
Recently some of the players asked him, if they could show him what they're capable of doing. And showed him they did :stuck_out_tongue: at training and in real games. Team and coach haven't looked back since. (Thank God)….Coach and players are learning from each other and just as important, about each other's capabilities. That's the way it seems to me anyway. :sign:
Some good points in all of these posts, however I am inclined to agree that our current efforts in Defence have not been that convincing - just watch how the Raiders rolled up field almost every time they had the ball. We rarely put them on their backs or dominated the tackle aggressively enough and this allowed them very quick play-the-balls. Once a team is rolling through you like that it is very hard to stop. I thought their pack dominated us pretty much and it was a combination of luck and desperation with some fortunate (and awesome) attack that stole the game for us. They made just enough mistakes not to win.
As to the overall noticeable improvement in our recent play - I believe it is a combination of things. Certainly in attack we seem to be spreading the ball nicely, Teddy is on fire and Moses much more involved. We have had a far better centre combo recently with Kev and Simona, also with Nofa back - these additions have made a big difference compared to the guys that we tried through middle season (Hoeter, Milone, Lovett etc). In Defence, we are aiming up and playing tougher for each other than before and that is certainly helping - honestly though, we still lack some sizeable quality guys and whilst that remains we will never be a real threat. Especially when we give away penalty after penalty trying to make up for our lack of dominance in most tackles. This leads to having to make more tackles and the inevitable tiredness that translates into mistakes and weak attempts.
On Taylor - I think he is trying his best, but with the roster and depth he's got to work with it's not going to be that easy to beat most of our competition.
As to the overall noticeable improvement in our recent play - I believe it is a combination of things. Certainly in attack we seem to be spreading the ball nicely, Teddy is on fire and Moses much more involved. We have had a far better centre combo recently with Kev and Simona, also with Nofa back - these additions have made a big difference compared to the guys that we tried through middle season (Hoeter, Milone, Lovett etc). In Defence, we are aiming up and playing tougher for each other than before and that is certainly helping - honestly though, we still lack some sizeable quality guys and whilst that remains we will never be a real threat. Especially when we give away penalty after penalty trying to make up for our lack of dominance in most tackles. This leads to having to make more tackles and the inevitable tiredness that translates into mistakes and weak attempts.
On Taylor - I think he is trying his best, but with the roster and depth he's got to work with it's not going to be that easy to beat most of our competition.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
You have some good and bad points Stryker
I think the biggest point you overlooked was having our best 1-5 on the paddock and how better we are with them all fit and healthy
But some of us went into this season with higher hopes than others at least for the 1st 18 rounds anyway
Pity you generalized the "Taylor supporters" argument . I don't see myself as a lover or hater at this stage
I just think he deserves at least another 12 months before all the haters get their pitchforks and burn Taylor at the stake for heresy
I think the biggest point you overlooked was having our best 1-5 on the paddock and how better we are with them all fit and healthy
But some of us went into this season with higher hopes than others at least for the 1st 18 rounds anyway
Pity you generalized the "Taylor supporters" argument . I don't see myself as a lover or hater at this stage
I just think he deserves at least another 12 months before all the haters get their pitchforks and burn Taylor at the stake for heresy
Tim Sheens
Well-known member
@stryker said:
I am pretty well with the whole of Strykers post, with the edited above being most relevant.
Jyrksir wrote about the whole season being Taylorball and has dismissed the chances of him having been forced in any way to change things, but that is way off the mark for mine. Others are still pissed with the coach and imo fail to appreciate some of the changes that have been made, whether or not done by choice.
Both our byes coinciding with player and/or club requests brought changes to our game for mine, with one out Taylorball disappearing in the main following the cows game, and then a far more expansive game starting against the chooks.
stevetiger
New member
@Tiger In The Gong said:
I was going to state this. I have no idea how anyone could consider Taylorball anything other than the biggest flop of all time.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@stevetiger said:
You were going to but you didn't Steve
Maybe you got to dizzy from all the spin
Funny how we are still using many aspects of Taylorball Mk 1 and you choose to ignore that
But that doesn't fit with your agendas , does it
I'd be interested to know; of the critics of "Taylorball" how many have FG coaching experience, how many have coaching experience at any level, how many have adult education teaching or mentoring experience?
That will inform me as to how much value to place on your comments.
That will inform me as to how much value to place on your comments.
