The Papenhuyzen decision...

[twentyforty]

You've got issues if you're still smarting over this decision. It happened, let it go and if you can't, seek help.

I’m still smarting over Tedesco personally.

I know who I'd rather have back.

And anyway it's the Tedesco decision/outcome that caused the Papenhuyzen outcome.

Let’s assume that nobody saw Tedesco’s departure in 2017 even though he had previously tried to leave.

Was Paps always going to start his nrl career in 2019?
I would say yes. I would also suggest that Paps leaving had nothing to do with Tedesco, but everything to do with being coached by one of the best fullbacks in the game. Coaching Tedesco never got from WT. Paps saw a chance to enhance his career, an option not available if he stayed at WT. Given that scenario I reckon there was nothing WT could have done, assuming they wanted to keep Paps.

The story of Paps is an important one, because it is not an isolated case. Posters on here wish to highlight it for that very reason, in the hope that the WT organisation develop into a more professional club and compete on the paddock. We certainly have the talent. But we don’t have the ability to enhance reputations.

 

[earl]

I know someone who's nephew was one time in the Storm system. The difference and professionalism between the Storm and other clubs is huge. There is no surprise Storm get the players they want and have the right structures and professionals in place to achieve ongoing success. Papps was identified along with Drinkwater as potential successors to Slater. They both knew they had to bide their time in lower grades but when you have stars like Slater, Smith, Cronk to learn off of and the best medical team to assist with hamstrings why wouldn't you want to go there. Bellamy personally meets the player and his family and all their big stars give you personalised tours of the place and discuss your opportunities. This is where WT are not in the same ball park. Papps given what Storm could offer him was a no brainer decision.

Really.You don't think that Madge and the whole staff do exactly the same thing ?

 

[earl]

Coaching Tedesco never got from WT

Is this guy a decent fullback ? I assume if coaching is such a big issue then he would be a dud. My understanding is that this guy is far and away the best fullback in the game.

So if Paps left for better coaching I personally don't think he made a fair assessment.

I think if anything we've enhanced players reputations beyond their ability. Players like Woods, Moses and Matterson come to mind.

 

[Spartan117]

Did you know that the Storm were shopping Paps about a few years back and there were no takers.

People seem to forget to mention this fact.

 

[Tiger5150]

Did you know that the Storm were shopping Paps about a few years back and there were no takers.

People seem to forget to mention this fact.

One year back, and he wasnt the first choice this year.

 

[twentyforty]

Coaching Tedesco never got from WT

Is this guy a decent fullback ? I assume if coaching is such a big issue then he would be a dud. My understanding is that this guy is far and away the best fullback in the game.

So if Paps left for better coaching I personally don't think he made a fair assessment.

I think if anything we've enhanced players reputations beyond their ability. Players like Woods, Moses and Matterson come to mind.

Earl, I have to disagree. These young players have the talent but they need mentoring.
Do you think Tedesco didn’t want answers to these questions? Mini , what made you so good? How do I modify my game to equal or surpass your success? Show me the mistakes you made? How did you fix those?
So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching. Same with Moses and others. We don’t have the money. Only a few weeks ago the board decided to increase the training budget, but not by a huge amount.
Players want to reach their full potential. They can only do this by learning from the best.

 

[jirskyr]

I would also suggest that Paps leaving had nothing to do with Tedesco, but everything to do with being coached by one of the best fullbacks in the game.

If Tedesco is already gone, or does not exist, you don't think that impacts Tigers' decision-making around Papenhuyzen? Hypothetical of course but it's a very different thing trying to keep the games' best FB and a promising understudy, vs only the understudy.

 

[jirskyr]

So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching.

What nonsense is this? Michael Potter is a 2x Dally M winning and 2x premiership-winning fullback. The Dally Ms were 7 seasons apart, no less, at two different clubs, which tells you how good he was to win the award at either end of his career and with different club settings.

You reckon Potter doesn't know how to give specific fullback coaching?

Mitchell Moses has received 1-on-1 coaching from the all-time greatest halfback in rugby league and he's still a critical failure.

 

[jrtiger]

So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching.

What nonsense is this? Michael Potter is a 2x Dally M winning and 2x premiership-winning fullback. The Dally Ms were 7 seasons apart, no less, at two different clubs, which tells you how good he was to win the award at either end of his career and with different club settings.

You reckon Potter doesn't know how to give specific fullback coaching?

Mitchell Moses has received 1-on-1 coaching from the all-time greatest halfback in rugby league and he's still a critical failure.

still filthy at how the fraud Grant Mayer singlehandedly destroyed Potter's coaching career. we had a genuine top 8 side in 2014 and if it wasn't for Farah's comments and the lack of support around Potter we would've given it a decent shake. we beat both grand finalists comfortably that year at different ends of the season.

 

[twentyforty]

So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching.

What nonsense is this? Michael Potter is a 2x Dally M winning and 2x premiership-winning fullback. The Dally Ms were 7 seasons apart, no less, at two different clubs, which tells you how good he was to win the award at either end of his career and with different club settings.

You reckon Potter doesn't know how to give specific fullback coaching?

Mitchell Moses has received 1-on-1 coaching from the all-time greatest halfback in rugby league and he's still a critical failure.

I’ve previously stated Potters credentials. It’s not that he was not qualified. The point is , he never did. This is according to him and Teddy.

 

[mike]

So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching.

What nonsense is this? Michael Potter is a 2x Dally M winning and 2x premiership-winning fullback. The Dally Ms were 7 seasons apart, no less, at two different clubs, which tells you how good he was to win the award at either end of his career and with different club settings.

You reckon Potter doesn't know how to give specific fullback coaching?

Mitchell Moses has received 1-on-1 coaching from the all-time greatest halfback in rugby league and he's still a critical failure.

still filthy at how the fraud Grant Mayer singlehandedly destroyed Potter's coaching career. we had a genuine top 8 side in 2014 and if it wasn't for Farah's comments and the lack of support around Potter we would've given it a decent shake. we beat both grand finalists comfortably that year at different ends of the season.

I see Potter’s issues as being an introvert and too much of a nice guy. These were his downfall.

 

[twentyforty]

I would also suggest that Paps leaving had nothing to do with Tedesco, but everything to do with being coached by one of the best fullbacks in the game.

If Tedesco is already gone, or does not exist, you don't think that impacts Tigers' decision-making around Papenhuyzen? Hypothetical of course but it's a very different thing trying to keep the games' best FB and a promising understudy, vs only the understudy.

Ok, it’s a moot point, but given Teddy has gone to chooks and we’re trying to hang onto Paps? I say we’re a good chance to lose out when Billy Slater comes knocking. Storms MO is to find talent which is not being fully utilised. ( It’s another way of managing the cap) Madge of course is aware of this deficiency we have. We don’t have too many legends to pass on their knowledge and inspire young players . He gave Rowdy another year. Benji and Farah. What now?
We missed out on Latrell because of Inglis. We couldn’t keep Teddy because of Mini. And I dare say, we missed out on Paps because of Slater? Individual, specialised coaching. Nothing beats having a mentor who sees greatness in you.

 

[earl]

Coaching Tedesco never got from WT

Is this guy a decent fullback ? I assume if coaching is such a big issue then he would be a dud. My understanding is that this guy is far and away the best fullback in the game.

So if Paps left for better coaching I personally don't think he made a fair assessment.

I think if anything we've enhanced players reputations beyond their ability. Players like Woods, Moses and Matterson come to mind.


Earl, I have to disagree. These young players have the talent but they need mentoring.
Do you think Tedesco didn’t want answers to these questions? Mini , what made you so good? How do I modify my game to equal or surpass your success? Show me the mistakes you made? How did you fix those?
So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching. Same with Moses and others. We don’t have the money. Only a few weeks ago the board decided to increase the training budget, but not by a huge amount.
Players want to reach their full potential. They can only do this by learning from the best.

My point is that your initial assessment was clearly wrong or at least massively flawed and it doesn't stand up to criticism. Tedesco is the best and he learnt it via the Tigers. He left because he thought the best way to win is to go to a winning club. He also made sure he got paid big time.

Your disagreement really doesn't matter because it isn't backed up by facts. Tedesco become great at the Tigers. He realized his potential with us. We helped turn him into a great player. Matterson came on with us. Moses learnt with us. Woods learnt with us.

I think a better argument is that we have helped lots of players reach their potential and they haven't kicked on at other clubs which suggest our coaching or set-up is better than other teams.

 

[JC99]

So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching.

What nonsense is this? Michael Potter is a 2x Dally M winning and 2x premiership-winning fullback. The Dally Ms were 7 seasons apart, no less, at two different clubs, which tells you how good he was to win the award at either end of his career and with different club settings.

You reckon Potter doesn't know how to give specific fullback coaching?

Mitchell Moses has received 1-on-1 coaching from the all-time greatest halfback in rugby league and he's still a critical failure.

still filthy at how the fraud Grant Mayer singlehandedly destroyed Potter's coaching career. we had a genuine top 8 side in 2014 and if it wasn't for Farah's comments and the lack of support around Potter we would've given it a decent shake. we beat both grand finalists comfortably that year at different ends of the season.

I see Potter’s issues as being an introvert and too much of a nice guy. These were his downfall.

His downfall was messing with the boys club. No coach has done that and survived, Madge might be the first but even he was lenient with them.

 

[earl]

So you think Tedesco became that good playing with WT. Potter may have given him a couple of tips but no one on one FB specific coaching.

What nonsense is this? Michael Potter is a 2x Dally M winning and 2x premiership-winning fullback. The Dally Ms were 7 seasons apart, no less, at two different clubs, which tells you how good he was to win the award at either end of his career and with different club settings.

You reckon Potter doesn't know how to give specific fullback coaching?

Mitchell Moses has received 1-on-1 coaching from the all-time greatest halfback in rugby league and he's still a critical failure.

If anything I think the coaching argument is a pro Tigers argument. Players appear to go backwards at other clubs. There may be other factors but it appears a lot of players reach their peak at the Tigers.

The real question is how much does talent and individual hard work count compared to coaching. My personal opinion is talent is the main factor by a significant margin and hard work and good coaching just support that.

Mitchell Moses hasn't come on at all at Parramatta. Matterson has gone backwards. Woods has gone backwards at Cronulla and Canterbury. Tedesco is basically the same player as he was with us. This all suggests that coaching at the Tigers isn't an issue at all.

 

[Tiger5150]

I would also suggest that Paps leaving had nothing to do with Tedesco, but everything to do with being coached by one of the best fullbacks in the game.

If Tedesco is already gone, or does not exist, you don't think that impacts Tigers' decision-making around Papenhuyzen? Hypothetical of course but it's a very different thing trying to keep the games' best FB and a promising understudy, vs only the understudy.


***Ok, it’s a moot point, but given Teddy has gone to chooks and we’re trying to hang onto Paps?*** I say we’re a good chance to lose out when Billy Slater comes knocking. Storms MO is to find talent which is not being fully utilised. ( It’s another way of managing the cap) Madge of course is aware of this deficiency we have. We don’t have too many legends to pass on their knowledge and inspire young players . He gave Rowdy another year. Benji and Farah. What now?
We missed out on Latrell because of Inglis. We couldn’t keep Teddy because of Mini. And I dare say, we missed out on Paps because of Slater? Individual, specialised coaching. Nothing beats having a mentor who sees greatness in you.

Teddy was still here when Bellamy knocked on Paps door and we lost him. That is not a moot point, its kinda the whole point.

 

[earl]

We missed out on Latrell because of Inglis. We couldn’t keep Teddy because of Mini. And I dare say, we missed out on Paps because of Slater? Individual, specialised coaching. Nothing beats having a mentor who sees greatness in you.

Are you serious ? Tedesco pays some guy a fortune to be his mentor. The coaching argument you are going on about appears to be completely irrelevant at best.

Now we need specific players that are designed to specifically target certain players. I hope you realize all of those facts that you've made up aren't facts at all. You don't know why those guys signed with their respective clubs.

 

[twentyforty]

We missed out on Latrell because of Inglis. We couldn’t keep Teddy because of Mini. And I dare say, we missed out on Paps because of Slater? Individual, specialised coaching. Nothing beats having a mentor who sees greatness in you.

Are you serious ? Tedesco pays some guy a fortune to be his mentor. The coaching argument you are going on about appears to be completely irrelevant at best.

Now we need specific players that are designed to specifically target certain players. I hope you realize all of those facts that you've made up aren't facts at all. You don't know why those guys signed with their respective clubs.

Gosh Earl, I wasn’t aware that WT coaching was superior than Storms, Eels and Roosters. There must be some other reason those teams made finals and we finished14th? I wonder what it could be? According to you .. we give them our best players and they don’t improve.

 

[twentyforty]

I would also suggest that Paps leaving had nothing to do with Tedesco, but everything to do with being coached by one of the best fullbacks in the game.

If Tedesco is already gone, or does not exist, you don't think that impacts Tigers' decision-making around Papenhuyzen? Hypothetical of course but it's a very different thing trying to keep the games' best FB and a promising understudy, vs only the understudy.


***Ok, it’s a moot point, but given Teddy has gone to chooks and we’re trying to hang onto Paps?*** I say we’re a good chance to lose out when Billy Slater comes knocking. Storms MO is to find talent which is not being fully utilised. ( It’s another way of managing the cap) Madge of course is aware of this deficiency we have. We don’t have too many legends to pass on their knowledge and inspire young players . He gave Rowdy another year. Benji and Farah. What now?
We missed out on Latrell because of Inglis. We couldn’t keep Teddy because of Mini. And I dare say, we missed out on Paps because of Slater? Individual, specialised coaching. Nothing beats having a mentor who sees greatness in you.

Teddy was still here when Bellamy knocked on Paps door and we lost him. That is not a moot point, its kinda the whole point.

5150, you need to see my post in context. I was responding to jikyr ‘s hypothetical..”If Tedesco is already gone, or does not exist, you don’t think that impacts Tigers’ decision-making around Papenhuyzen? Hypothetical of course but it’s a very different thing trying to keep the games’ best FB and a promising understudy, vs only the understudy.”

My point is we wouldn’t be able to keep him because he would give away a lifetime opportunity to be mentored with tailored coaching from Slater.
Latrell thought it was worth $400k over 12 months to be mentored by his childhood idol Greg Inglis. You need to understand Inglis is a super star off the field as well.