WESTS TIGERS - COACH IVAN CLEARY..OFFICIAL

[Tacky]

I just found something interesting about the squad that the Panthers had before and after Cleary took over.

In 2011, the Panthers finished 12th. They had Michael Gordon, Lachlan Coote, Luke Lewis, Petro Civoniceva, Tim Grant, Michael Jennings, Joseph Paulo and Nigel Plum all at the club.

In 2014, they finished 2nd and made it to the preliminary final. The only players from the ones mentioned they kept were, Tim Grant and Nigel Plum. Just thought that was interesting.

Also, Tim Grant played State of Origin for the first time in 2012, the first year that Cleary coached the Panthers.

Why is it interesting?

The Panthers had a bunch of talented players but finished 12th. Cleary comes in, overhauls the roster, getting rid of a lot of talented players. 2 years later they're 2nd on the table.

I was just trying to relate it to the situation at this club. Hoping Cleary could do something similar for us.

 

[1_4_chicken_chips]

Its a smart play to pretend you haven't approached anyone before sacking your current coach. The last thing they need is a potential law suit from Taylor. But we all know that's not how RL works, and we know we have many players off contract.

My crystal ball suggests Cleary will be appointed in a 'consultancy role' after Webster has a couple of losses, allowing him to shape a roster for 2018\. Then once the season is nearly done, Pascoe's will hold a press conference naming Ivan Cleary as the Head Coach for 2018 ensuring that Cleary won't have the results of the 2017 Tigers on his resume.

It makes sence as it was more than likely discussed a week ago in a small coffee shop on the south coast of NSW?!

For me, this is the worst result. The longer we take to install a new coach, the more likely we are to miss the semis.

You really think our side can make the semis ….it's simple we have too many non first graders ...I actually think Cleary would be stupid to take the job as he is on a hiding to nothing ...the big 4 can't win us a game now ,so unless we sign a handful of good first graders what will change .

 

[tigerbenji]

I would get Cleary to sign a contract before he changes his mind.

 

[supercoach]

Okay it starts and ends with the coach, but to expect Cleary to come in and turn the place around in 18 months is fairy tale stuff. It will be once again back to square one and a slow process of offloading and recruiting players, changing the culture and revamping our playing style. We have been down this track a few times without any success, so i wonder how long will it be before people start to get restless with the process and the coach. I wish I could be optimistic, but every time i am it comes back and bites my backside off

 

[Russell]

Someone correct me if i am wrong, but lets say we announce Cleary Monday, how do we expect him to coach against the Cows? Would he not have to come in and build a rapport with the players before barking orders at them?

You're right, so he would probably rely on Andrew Webster running the team initially until he has time to assess the current playing roster re strengths and weaknesses (plenty of these), defensive structures (if any in our case) etc etc.

Assuming Cleary is to be the coach - do you think he has not already assessed players over the past weeks TT, I would say he already has a good idea of who he wants to keep and release. When he takes over (if he does) he will form a confirm opinion in the coming weeks whether he should change his mind. I'm sure he would have a list of possible buys as well.

If these guys think they only need to start playing well after a coaching appointment they would be badly mistaken. Plenty of footage of the Tigers on file for him to look at anyway.

 

[simonthetigerrrr]

I think there are some differences here…...Cleary has a track record with developing up and coming sides and overachieving.

Secondly he will have plenty of loot to spend,even more if he doesnt want all of the big four....

im excited about it all.......new coach and some new signings imminent.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I just found something interesting about the squad that the Panthers had before and after Cleary took over.

In 2011, the Panthers finished 12th. They had Michael Gordon, Lachlan Coote, Luke Lewis, Petro Civoniceva, Tim Grant, Michael Jennings, Joseph Paulo and Nigel Plum all at the club.

In 2014, they finished 2nd and made it to the preliminary final. The only players from the ones mentioned they kept were, Tim Grant and Nigel Plum. Just thought that was interesting.

Also, Tim Grant played State of Origin for the first time in 2012, the first year that Cleary coached the Panthers.

Why is it interesting?

The Panthers had a bunch of talented players but finished 12th. Cleary comes in, overhauls the roster, getting rid of a lot of talented players. 2 years later they're 2nd on the table.

I was just trying to relate it to the situation at this club. Hoping Cleary could do something similar for us.

It's very interesting. They had cap issues with those players on the books. Cleary got the broom out and created a more balanced side, so much so that if my memory serves correctly, they made the prelim final despite their season being disrupted with injury. The used something like 31 or 32 players that year if I remember right.

 

[851]

Someone correct me if i am wrong, but lets say we announce Cleary Monday, how do we expect him to coach against the Cows? Would he not have to come in and build a rapport with the players before barking orders at them?

You're right, so he would probably rely on Andrew Webster running the team initially until he has time to assess the current playing roster re strengths and weaknesses (plenty of these), defensive structures (if any in our case) etc etc.

Assuming Cleary is to be the coach - do you think he has not already assessed players over the past weeks TT, I would say he already has a good idea of who he wants to keep and release. When he takes over (if he does) he will form a confirm opinion in the coming weeks whether he should change his mind. I'm sure he would have a list of possible buys as well.

If these guys think they only need to start playing well after a coaching appointment they would be badly mistaken. Plenty of footage of the Tigers on file for him to look at anyway.

You are right Cleary is a pro, he would already have a good idea of who he wants to keep and who he doesn't want. He would also have a wish list of players he wants to bring in, exciting times ahead I think.

 

[05TIGZ]

I just found something interesting about the squad that the Panthers had before and after Cleary took over.

In 2011, the Panthers finished 12th. They had Michael Gordon, Lachlan Coote, Luke Lewis, Petro Civoniceva, Tim Grant, Michael Jennings, Joseph Paulo and Nigel Plum all at the club.

In 2014, they finished 2nd and made it to the preliminary final. The only players from the ones mentioned they kept were, Tim Grant and Nigel Plum. Just thought that was interesting.

Also, Tim Grant played State of Origin for the first time in 2012, the first year that Cleary coached the Panthers.

Why is it interesting?

The Panthers had a bunch of talented players but finished 12th. Cleary comes in, overhauls the roster, getting rid of a lot of talented players. 2 years later they're 2nd on the table.

I was just trying to relate it to the situation at this club. Hoping Cleary could do something similar for us.

It's very interesting. They had cap issues with those players on the books. Cleary got the broom out and created a more balanced side, so much so that if my memory serves correctly, they made the prelim final despite their season being disrupted with injury. The used something like 31 or 32 players that year if I remember right.

Very interesting indeed. He has a history of moving on big name players on big wages and creating a better team. Look at the dogs yesterday. A reggies player comes in and leads the team better than their star halfback who is on a supposed $800k per year. I reckon Cleary might want to pull some of these offers of the table and will be very reluctant to pay overs for these pretenders. Hopefully he can sell his story toTedesco and build this team around him.

 

[Trisdar]

It is a new beginning again and is exciting. Anyone who doesn't want to show commitment needed though needs to either get dropped or leave. If they are contracted sit them out so they don't play it's been done before. Bennett use to do it

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Cleary can get adequately talented players and build a good side with them.

We need a balanced team next year. Can't have too much money tied up on a handful of players, especially players that have not realised their potential. We need two decent centres, another decent second rower and a pig with a bit of mongrel.

Sign Teddy for a good deal, give Woods a sensible deal and then build the side around that. McQueen coming on $400K a year is reasonable when we've signed an unproven youngster in Suli on similar money.

 

[Newtown]

I think there are some differences here…...Cleary has a track record with developing up and coming sides and overachieving.

Secondly he will have plenty of loot to spend,even more if he doesnt want all of the big four....

im excited about it all.......new coach and some new signings imminent.

I'm excited too but there are a lot of negative nervous nelly supporters out there. There are also a lot of nervous Wests Tigers players who unfortunately have been proven to not be first grade level.

 

[happy_tiger]

Just hoping if Cleary gets the job that Ivan's not the Terrible :wink:

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Or Crazy Ivan?

 

[happy_tiger]

Ivan the Invincible has a nice ring to it

 

[The-moP]

The Club would have announced it by now … unless there are contract discussion still go on ... Im gonna say they are still trying to come up with an agreed payment for Cleary. Let's hang in there as the Dogs now seem to have re-signed Hasler ... which means Cleary out of the race for the Dogs ... keep our fingers crossed we get Cleary and we sign our supposed big 4 ... well 3 of them anyways.

 

[TCL]

The Club would have announced it by now … unless there are contract discussion still go on ... Im gonna say they are still trying to come up with an agreed payment for Cleary. Let's hang in there as the Dogs now seem to have re-signed Hasler ... which means Cleary out of the race for the Dogs ... keep our fingers crossed we get Cleary and we sign our supposed big 4 ... well 3 of them anyways.

I think it will be Monday or Sunday after the game at earliest. If its done.

 

[diedpretty]

Good article by Roy Masters on player managers influence.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/conflict-of-interests-arise-when-agents-represent-players-and-coaches-20170329-gv92sk.html
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Conflict of interests arise when agents represent players and coaches

Roy Masters
Roy Masters
29 reading now
The NRL will inevitably move to ban agents from simultaneously representing both players and coaches.

Player manager Isaac Moses' representation of four key Wests Tigers players – captain Aaron Woods, fullback James Tedesco and halves Luke Brooks and Mitchell Moses – has exposed the power of one agent over a club.

Moses also represents two coaches, Andrew Webster and Todd Payten, who were favoured by the four players to replace the sacked Jason Taylor.

One reason why Wests Tigers board is keen to move quickly to secure the out-of-work Ivan Cleary is to deny an agent further influence over a club that has sacked three coaches in five years.
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Should the NRL insist coaches be represented separately from players, conflict of interest situations will still arise.

Agent George Mimis acts for both Bulldogs coach Des Hasler and Cleary.

Hasler's future is already being discussed by a Canterbury board reacting to the media's relentless need to sack a coach.

Timing probably won't allow it but should Hasler be sacked, Mimis is in a position to negotiate deals where the Bulldogs hire client Cleary and Wests Tigers sign Hasler, collecting a lucrative commission on both.
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The NRL's action against player managers will be formalised when the current investigation into the role of agents in Parramatta's salary cap cheating is completed.

There is growing chatter some of the game's leading player managers will be banned for periods between six months and three years.

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The NRL action will begin with it seeking greater influence on the Agent Accreditation Committee where it currently has only one of seven seats.

Sanctions may include penalties against agents filing the paperwork for banned colleagues belonging to the same management combine, a practice that undermined past suspensions .
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Wests Tigers have only themselves to blame for all four players coming off contract at the same time.

However, the club has no control over who represents a player, unless they take the action Roosters' boss, Nick Politis, did against Moses recently.
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Two weeks ago, the Roosters released centre Dale Copley to the Titans. Copley was the last client Moses had at the club. Politis has been a rare club chairman strong enough to refuse to deal with a player manager.

Moses also acts for more than half the Storm's pack of starting forwards, as well as Parramatta captain Tim Mannah.

Mimis acted for Anthony Watmough, whose third party deal with the Eels initiated the investigation into the salary cap breaches at Parramatta, leading to NRL de-registering five officials.

Moses and Mimis have been previously banished for six months by the NRL for their role in the Storm's 2010 salary cap breaches.

Of the 100 or so accredited agents, a handful have a disproportionate share of the elite players, leading to constant conflicts of interests.

Should the Agent Accreditation Committee banish most of the leading agents, players must exercise a role in maintaining the integrity of the new cadre of agents coming into the game.

NRL club officials believe that some senior players are incentivised to promote young players to the agent acting for the senior player. That is, if the senior player pushes two young signings to the agent, the commission of approximately 5 per cent to 7 per cent on the senior player's contract is waived for two years.

To overcome this, an empowered Agent Accreditation Committee may move to limit the number of players per agent per club.

There is widespread feeling agents are not delivering care and service for the $7 million a year they take out of the game, equivalent to a 17th team in terms of player costs.

Wests Tigers Tim Simona was recently sacked for breaching NRL gambling rules. His problem was too much spare time to gamble with insufficient cash. Surely the club, or his manager, Moses, could have solved both problems simultaneously by securing him a supervised part-time job.

But it's the escalation in the number of coaches represented by agents that has the NRL currently worried. It has supercharged the conflicts of interest, exposed by the sacking of Taylor.

An agent has an interest in his coach having a long and successful career because, 1\. the agent receives a percentage of the coach's salary over a longer period than the average player, 2\. The coach provides access to key areas, such as the dressing room and 3\. The agent can advise a player to join the club coached by his client, further cementing their relationship.

Only one NRL accredited player manager acts only for coaches and no players – John Fordham who represents both Melbourne Storm coach Craig Bellamy and Canberra's Ricky Stuart.

Both are likely to finish their careers at their current clubs.

 

[Tbone]

"Wests Tigers Tim Simona was recently sacked for breaching NRL gambling rules. His problem was too much spare time to gamble with insufficient cash. Surely the club, or his manager, Moses, could have solved both problems simultaneously by securing him a supervised part-time job".

Deary my. So much stupidity in this comment from Masters that I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Why is it interesting?

The Panthers had a bunch of talented players but finished 12th. Cleary comes in, overhauls the roster, getting rid of a lot of talented players. 2 years later they're 2nd on the table.

I was just trying to relate it to the situation at this club. Hoping Cleary could do something similar for us.

It's very interesting. They had cap issues with those players on the books. Cleary got the broom out and created a more balanced side, so much so that if my memory serves correctly, they made the prelim final despite their season being disrupted with injury. The used something like 31 or 32 players that year if I remember right.

Very interesting indeed. He has a history of moving on big name players on big wages and creating a better team. Look at the dogs yesterday. A reggies player comes in and leads the team better than their star halfback who is on a supposed $800k per year. I reckon Cleary might want to pull some of these offers of the table and will be very reluctant to pay overs for these pretenders. Hopefully he can sell his story toTedesco and build this team around him.

I hope he puts a rocket up Woodsies butt, and convinces him that he's a Front Rower, and not a walking plea for a hairdresser, or a dog comb.
Also hope he gets time to do some fitness, with especial emphasis on our non working forwards. I know they won't know what he's talking about though.