Taylorball

[happy_tiger]

Here's a question Happy….

What do you perceive to be Taylor's defensive structure he is trying to employ?

It changes Stryker and depends on the field position , but working off after our kick chase we usually play a compressed line early in the count and rely on a slide to prevent them getting on our outside

When the opposition are in our half we go man on man and the usually try and slide

In our own defensive twenty we usually go man on man and try and close them off from inside out , but again that changes on the side we are playing , who is in our side and the opposition we are playing

Obviously in our 10 its man on man and you don't slide on your own line ever

Cover it well enough for you ??

 

[stryker]

Yes you have covered all bases…one problem though.
That is not a system.

 

[happy_tiger]

Sorry forgot to add that I don't think Taylor places much of an emphasis on line speed in defence

I think he is more concerned about a straight line of defence and players getting their bodies on the line

We also scramble quite well , to be honest some of our scramble defence is as good as it was in the latter half of 2005

Our biggest problem defensively is when our edge defenders get isolated , Lovett doesn't cope well when he isolated which is why I reckon he could be good playing in the 13 in the future

The other problem when Lovett gets isolated is teams get a quick play the ball and then Moses or Brooks gets isolated which obviously is bad

 

[happy_tiger]

Yes you have covered all bases…one problem though.
That is not a system.

Then what is it then ??

Try line to try line sounds like a plan or system to me ??

 

[stryker]

To me it looks like he has employed the classic drift defence. Our defenders start on the attackers inside shoulder and push out. Basically it is an up and out defence.

The problem with this is that you don't present a straight line it is more a concave pattern meaning the outside backs are deeper than the boys in the middle. Up until recently we have been burned out wide for speed and this is due to the defenders one wide of the ruck allowing their men to beat them.

 

[happy_tiger]

To me it looks like he has employed the classic drift defence. Our defenders start on the attackers inside shoulder and push out. Basically it is an up and out defence.

The problem with this is that you don't present a straight line it is more a concave pattern meaning the outside backs are deeper than the boys in the middle. Up until recently we have been burned out wide for speed and this is due to the defenders one wide of the ruck allowing their men to beat them.

I reckon we are going to have another ten page marathon Stryker

We definitely play a compressed line , directly after the kick chase

And we don't have enough line speed to play up and out in my opinion , and you definitely see it when they attack Patty's side we are trying to close the ball down from the outside and turn the attack back inside

 

[stryker]

You mentioned the back 5 we had for the majority of the season and there is definitely some merit to that. When designing a defensive structure you tailor it to your players abilities and techniques - not the opposition. Rowdy likes up and in as does Kevin. They both prefer to hit the runner as soon as they recieve the ball. I believe the slide affected their efficiencies.

As for the fill ins like Milone, Lovett etc…they also prefer direct contact. The drift showed them up.

 

[happy_tiger]

And your defensive plans change to suit a side you play against

You wouldn't use the same defensive game plan against St George as you would against Canberra or the Cowboys

 

[stryker]

I disagree.
Some players don't have the speed for certain systems. Others don't have the line speed or aggression.

Teams like Roosters Broncs and Dogs love the blitz style. Their system is line speed and aggressive 2 man tackles. They don't change. They may alter it a tad but the platform always remains the same forcing opposition sides to adapt their attack to suit.

 

[stevetiger]

I'd be interested to know; of the critics of "Taylorball" how many have FG coaching experience, how many have coaching experience at any level, how many have adult education teaching or mentoring experience?

That will inform me as to how much value to place on your comments.

First grade coach for 35 years. Prior to that I was a coach in the Dapto under 1's through to the under 15's.

I think my coaching record stands out as a beacon on this forum.

 

[happy_tiger]

I disagree.
Some players don't have the speed for certain systems. Others don't have the line speed or aggression.

Teams like Roosters Broncs and Dogs love the blitz style. Their system is line speed and aggressive 2 man tackles. They don't change. They may alter it a tad but the platform always remains the same forcing opposition sides to adapt their attack to suit.

Yes but our defence and the Roosters are very different and we just don't have that size and aggression in our side to pull that off

But again when sides get on top of the Roosters they don't cope well

Cronulla have proven if you can match them plan b is pretty limited

And the Cowboys with that potent backline and aggressive forward pack give the Roosters some curry

 

[stevetiger]

but Taylorball Mk1 was a success

Delusional.

I was going to state this. I have no idea how anyone could consider Taylorball anything other than the biggest flop of all time.

You were going to but you didn't Steve

Maybe you got to dizzy from all the spin

Funny how we are still using many aspects of Taylorball Mk 1 and you choose to ignore that

But that doesn't fit with your agendas , does it

I have no idea where this is coming from. I obviously have no agenda other than trying to win games and play positive footy.

You on the other hand are all over the place and completely inconsistent. When our attack is terrible its the longer term plan. When we go away from that style its mark 2.

Just admit that Taylor got it wrong when he came to the club. Its understandable. Yes it wrecked our season but lets all hope that he has learned from that experience. I've been stating for a while as well that he has changed his game plans.

 

[happy_tiger]

Steve you seem to think that Taylor and all of his acolytes thought they were going to stick to playing Taylorball

As I kept saying when this all started that our attack was fine , we needed to work on the defence and it had to be the absolute priority and had needed to for so long

We needed some structure to work from with the lack of experience and we do have a lot of structure we can work with when it is required

All these inexperienced kids no nothing different than what they had learnt from NYC , which as Stryker has said in the past is glorified touch footy in many games

Yes our defence isn't great and we struggle badly when we have to defend on the edges in one on one situations but it has improved markedly

You can knock the Taylorball all you like , but when we start getting in tight games and can actually start closing them out without some of the garbage we used to see or get into the grind if we go down 12-0 and try and slowly work our way back into games instead of panicking and trying to chase points and get into more trouble like the past then you might appreciate it

I will never see eye to eye and agree that attack is more important than defence as you and others do

When it comes to the crunch in the big games you eventually will play a team that can outscore you

And if and when that day comes and you can't defend your scoreline you lose

And how many times can we remember this club losing unlosable games because we couldn't defend the amount of points we'd scored

Far too bloody many

 

[jirskyr]

Jyrksir wrote about the whole season being Taylorball and has dismissed the chances of him having been forced in any way to change things, but that is way off the mark for mine. Others are still pissed with the coach and imo fail to appreciate some of the changes that have been made, whether or not done by choice.

Both our byes coinciding with player and/or club requests brought changes to our game for mine, with one out Taylorball disappearing in the main following the cows game, and then a far more expansive game starting against the chooks.

I'm not dismissing anything, I am just saying that the coach is always fiddling with the game plan depending on circumstances.

Some people are making this argument that JT put a bad plan in place and stuck to it despite the poor run, then only when we got to last, only in the death throes when he had no other option, did he take advice from someone else and now we are on the up again. So someone else is mostly to thank for the decent form.

They also say Taylor did not know how to get his individual players to perform until they told him how, supposing that these players waited 19 rounds until the Broncos game to provide such feedback.

My opinion is that JT is taking advice from people every week, he has like 4 assistant coaches and you can bet Farah has an opinion or two.

I totally agree that the Cowboys game was the low-point of this season (so far at least). But we won 4 games before the Nth Qld match, and after that game we lost 6/7\. The improvement is only very recent, and the praise belongs to the coach as much as the criticism for the bad losses.

So if your version of Taylorball went away after the Cowboys game, somehow we still got beat by Titans, Manly, Penrith, Parra - all ordinary sides - then Broncos and Roosters.

So what do we call the period at season open, when we won first two rounds and 3/5 total including a 1-pt loss? This was an ordinary run of form? Somehow Taylor devised a decent winning game plan for Rounds 1-5, then for some reason he changed his game plan to a boring 1-out style, then he was forced to change it back and eventually we found a groove the last two-ish games.

I don't buy it.

 

[Rambo2714]

The same people who criticize Taylor's style of play, are the ones who cry the loudest when they lose ..,, as dull as it may be at times … Taylor ball is what you have to do to compete in the current NRL climate .

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[stevetiger]

The same people who criticize Taylor's style of play, are the ones who cry the loudest when they lose ..,, as dull as it may be at times … Taylor ball is what you have to do to compete in the current NRL climate .

This is what kills me. Taylor ball is what you do if you don't want to compete in the NRL and that is obvious if you look at our performances this year.

Taylor ball killed us. Admittedly having Nofo and Simona out was also a major contributing factor because that is the are where we have the weakest depth.

Still - be serious for a little bit. Admit Taylor got it wrong and now he is getting it right. We have some great outside backs and a pair of halves who have some great potential. We need to give these guys a chance. Our forwards aren't bad and they also need to have a real go.

Defence is critically important and we need to work on it but attack is just as important. Focussing solely on defence and going into your shell when you have the ball will not win you games on a consistent basis. Taylor ball is proof of that.

 

[Tim Sheens]

They also say Taylor did not know how to get his individual players to perform until they told him how, supposing that these players waited 19 rounds until the Broncos game to provide such feedback.

My opinion is that JT is taking advice from people every week, he has like 4 assistant coaches and you can bet Farah has an opinion or two.

I totally agree that the Cowboys game was the low-point of this season (so far at least). But we won 4 games before the Nth Qld match, and after that game we lost 6/7\. The improvement is only very recent, and the praise belongs to the coach as much as the criticism for the bad losses.

So if your version of Taylorball went away after the Cowboys game, somehow we still got beat by Titans, Manly, Penrith, Parra - all ordinary sides - then Broncos and Roosters.

So what do we call the period at season open, when we won first two rounds and 3/5 total including a 1-pt loss? This was an ordinary run of form? Somehow Taylor devised a decent winning game plan for Rounds 1-5, then for some reason he changed his game plan to a boring 1-out style, then he was forced to change it back and eventually we found a groove the last two-ish games.

I don't buy it.[/quote

I have enjoyed watching us play again since the second bunnies match (the Titans a week before was bearable) and have written about my percieved changes since then on here. Yes to me Taylorball was only for a few weeks and followed the comeback by the dogs. The term was first used around the time of the cows game to describe the horrible one out and bomb attack of the period.

For mine he changed it to Taylorball to ram his message home and it somewhat backfired with the biggest result being a demoralised playing group, particularly the youngsters. The series of interviews in the weeks following the first bye described changes at training and mixing things up a bit in the middle.

The changes after the second bye were even more obvious and whilst we might not have got the result first up, we gave two top teams something to think about.

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

Yes to me Taylorball was only for a few weeks and followed the comeback by the dogs. The term was first used around the time of the cows game to describe the horrible one out and bomb attack of the period.

For mine he changed it to Taylorball to ram his message home and it somewhat backfired with the biggest result being a demoralised playing group, particularly the youngsters. .

This is the most accurate assessment of what Taylor Ball is and was.

It was a short period of time and it was used to ram home a message to the young playing group who went away from the game plan against the Raiders when they come back to beat us.

The normal week to week changes Taylor has tried to make to the squad and the over all defensive structure is not Taylor Ball.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Tackling is taught from Under 6's FT

You can try all you like with defensive structures even at Under 12/13's but it goes out the window the minute the kids get out there and get fatigued

Hobbo will have seen it every week , they stop moving up , they stop talking and if one side does move up the other doesn't

This year has been different for the under 11's since Hobbo got his league safe trainers ticket !
For the last six weeks all we've focused on is goal line defence and moving up in one straight line and its paid of in dividends !

Before that we adopted the JT defensive policy and we looked like shot ducks !
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Oh here we go

Hobbo's become the master coach :master: :laughing:

There's not pointing barking orders from the sideline with the mums happy :laughing:
I thought with your repetuare you'd me more hands on :laughing:

Nothing wrong with being on the sidelines with the Mums. :stuck_out_tongue:

 

[foreveratiger]

GT that's were hobbo losses his concentration and JT's defensive policy goes out the window :roll